Edison Fireside Model B (Maybe??)

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collector52
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Edison Fireside Model B (Maybe??)

Post by collector52 »

Hello Fellow Collectors-
I recently acquired what at first glance I felt to be an Edison Model B Fireside. Upon further inspection I am now not quite so sure. I felt this would be the perfect place to explain and get everyone's take on what I might have.

The metal ID tag says "Amberola" in fancy script and "III" in the model type box. The brass brads holding the metal tag on appear to be original and I have included pictures of the bottom of the bedplate with the brass brads bent over, a picture of the ID plate, and pictures of the motor. The bedplate is hinged at the back two corners as a Fireside would be. The machine comes with a Diamond Model B and a #10 Cygnet. A fellow collector read the Amberola III's came with the same motor as an Opera but I am not familiar enough with the various motors to know-thus the motor pictures. I also read that during this time period the Amberolas were taking over for the Firesides, Gems, and even the last of the Standards but they were manufactured concurrently.

So...I ask you-Do I have an altered machine by a previous owner? Do I have a transitional machine that left the factory this way put together with whatever parts were within arms reach? (I know Edison tried to use everything). Did someone at the factory screw up and put the wrong tag on it?

I will appreciate any input and opinions and thank you in advance for them.
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Fireside B 1a.jpg
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Fireside B 1b.jpg
Fireside B 1b.jpg (98.52 KiB) Viewed 241 times
Fireside B 1c.jpg
Fireside B 1c.jpg (131.61 KiB) Viewed 241 times
Fireside B 1d.jpg
Fireside B 1d.jpg (94.3 KiB) Viewed 241 times
Fireside B 1e.jpg
Fireside B 1e.jpg (105.58 KiB) Viewed 241 times

gramophoneshane
Victor V
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Re: Edison Fireside Model B (Maybe??)

Post by gramophoneshane »

Amberola VIII was fitted with Gem and Fireside works (after the Edison factory fire if I remember correctly), so I think someone has pulled the motor etc from an Amberola VIII cabinet and mounted it in a Fireside cabinet.

I'm pretty sure if this had started life as an external horn machine the data plate would say Fireside.
I could be wrong of course, but unless other examples are known to exist, I think it's a motor swap.
Last edited by gramophoneshane on Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ChesterCheetah18
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Re: Edison Fireside Model B (Maybe??)

Post by ChesterCheetah18 »

Frow & Sefl's book, as well as Frow's "Companion" book both state the Amberola III (not Fireside) used the same motor and works as the Opera. I think that's the question. How did an Amberola tag wind up on a Fireside machine?

Steve

martinola
Victor III
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Re: Edison Fireside Model B (Maybe??)

Post by martinola »

The tag looks like it has been there a long time - the bent over points have a very factory look about them. The serial number is way too low to be a Fireside model B. My lowest model B serial # on the list that I kept is well over 100,000.

Your mechanism is probably from an Amberola VIII. I can’t really see the stamping in the tag well, but I’d double check that there isn’t a faint “V”. Most likely it was married with the Fireside case by a collector. I wouldn’t totally rule out the factory selling it off after the factory fire to remove obsolete parts/machines, but it’s far less likely. All of that said, it really looks like a cool setup that has potential to sound very good.

Thanks for sharing!

Martin

gramophoneshane
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Re: Edison Fireside Model B (Maybe??)

Post by gramophoneshane »

My apologies. I got my III and VIII mixed up :oops:
The III did indeed use the Opera motor

I'll edit my post above

collector52
Victor Jr
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Re: Edison Fireside Model B (Maybe??)

Post by collector52 »

No, there is no "V" on the nameplate. I looked closer this morning. I did leave out a question I had in my initial post though. I have never seen an Amberola III. Did it's bedplate hinge with the two screws on the back corners of the bedplate like a Fireside does?

gramophoneshane
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Re: Edison Fireside Model B (Maybe??)

Post by gramophoneshane »

collector52 wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:37 am Did it's bedplate hinge with the two screws on the back corners of the bedplate like a Fireside does?
No, it's hinged at the front and rear on the right hand side of the bedplate, the same as an Amberola 1a/b.
In the picture below that I pulled off the internet, you can see the gold rods that act as hinges.
Attachments
H5675-L59677401.jpg

ChesterCheetah18
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Re: Edison Fireside Model B (Maybe??)

Post by ChesterCheetah18 »

In photos I've seen of Amberola VIIIs, there are screws in the front corners to hold the bedplate down. Is it hinged in the back corners like the Fireside?

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Roaring20s
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Re: Edison Fireside Model B (Maybe??)

Post by Roaring20s »

collector52 wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:29 pm ... So...I ask you-Do I have an altered machine by a previous owner? Do I have a transitional machine that left the factory this way put together with whatever parts were within arms reach? (I know Edison tried to use everything). Did someone at the factory screw up and put the wrong tag on it?

I will appreciate any input and opinions and thank you in advance for them.
Just from looking at pictures on the internet, you have a Fireside case, with a Amberola VIII works, and the works have the wrong ID Plate (from an Amberola III).

The Fireside and the Amberola VIII both have hinge mounts built into the back of the bedplate.
The Amberola VIII (being an Amberola) does not have the stanchion for a crane built into the bedplate.

I'd say that a previous owner/seller created a more desirable looking unit.

James.

collector52
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Re: Edison Fireside Model B (Maybe??)

Post by collector52 »

Thank you Gramophoneshane for the picture of a III. Obviously mine looks nothing like that. But-it does have two screw holes in the front corners of the bedplate so if a VIII has those maybe mine is an altered machine with the wrong ID plate AND in the wrong bedplate. From what I've been told none of the Firesides had screws in the front to hold down the metal bedplate. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Thanks to all that have contributed so far. If anyone else has anything ideas please pass them along.

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