The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

It is currently Sun Jan 19, 2020 4:05 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 78 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: need help restoring a HMV 102e
PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 9:15 am 
Offline
Victor Monarch
I have good days...this might not be one of them
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 5:23 pm
Posts: 4153
Location: Albany NY
Steve wrote:

Personally I don't think any machine like an HMV portable is worth restoring unless it is a very special model. The problem with your 102 is that it's a very standard late model in black. There are thousands more out there in much much better order. You would be wiser to invest your time and money in a clean example that needs no restoration. A restored 102 is almost worthless in todays money. Keep watching Ebay but always be on your guard. Most honest sellers do not shy away from providing plenty of pictures and a detailed description.



Steve, while I do understand your viewpoint there can be a great deal of satisfaction in restoring a "Basket case" no matter how common. I suspect that more than one of the members here has picked up a wreck intending to rob it for parts but ended up rebuilding it. Also, a collector can often develop more affection for a machine picked up in his own "back yard" than one bought online.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: need help restoring a HMV 102e
PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 10:02 am 
Online
Victor V
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 4:21 pm
Posts: 2523
I wish restored or poor condition 102s were worthless here in Australia. They still seem to sell on ebay for between $200-$300 here in poor condition with a missing soundbox, otherwise I'd own one by now :)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: need help restoring a HMV 102e
PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 12:41 pm 
Offline
Victor IV
User avatar
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2009 5:40 pm
Posts: 1600
Location: Holy Loch in Argyll and Bute
Quote:
They still seem to sell on ebay for between $200-$300 here in poor condition with a missing soundbox, otherwise I'd own one by now


Indeed! The problem you will have getting a cheapie from the UK will be POSTAGE COSTS! It'll cost you 3 times the cost of the machine! :x


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: need help restoring a HMV 102e
PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 5:23 pm 
Offline
Victor Monarch
I have good days...this might not be one of them
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 5:23 pm
Posts: 4153
Location: Albany NY
My suggestion: if you can, use a needle nose pliers and break the hardened rubber gasket out of the inside of the soundbox, then wrap the end of the arm with tape until the soundbox fits tightly on the end. Perhaps if you warm up the rubber with hot air (a hair dryer, not a heat gun) it will soften enough that you can dig it out.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: need help restoring a HMV 102e
PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 8:02 pm 
Offline
Victor III
User avatar
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2010 1:47 pm
Posts: 959
Steve wrote:
Mazak is the name of the cheap pot metal alloy used to cast the back-plate.

Mazak? Hmmm... I've never heard of it.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: need help restoring a HMV 102e
PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 9:21 pm 
Online
Victor V
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 4:21 pm
Posts: 2523
Retrograde wrote:
Steve wrote:
Mazak is the name of the cheap pot metal alloy used to cast the back-plate.

Mazak? Hmmm... I've never heard of it.


It's the proper name for zinc aluminium alloy, commonly called pot metal in USA, and sometimes refered to as britannia metal in other parts of the world.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: need help restoring a HMV 102e
PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 10:49 pm 
Offline
Victor Jr
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 9:54 am
Posts: 39
estott: i concluded that this soundbox is worthless to anyone but me, so i already removed the rubber gasket...

i slotted the tonearm into the hole and taped it over nice and snug...works fine now but it looks like a crappy job or a crapophone as you guys call it? but it works and the music belts out nice and loudly, although its distorted when its really loud at the peaks and i don't know if it is meant to be like that or is it due to the small tear in the diaphragm.

anyway, just in case i ever come across another soundbox, what soundboxes are compatible with this tonearm? i know there are lots of other brands out there like columbia, and songster etc...were they made to fit a wide range of gramophones or only a specific brand? i managed to find a really great antique shop here in singapore and he has a cupboard worth of soundboxes of different brands but i got turned off when he said he sells them for at least 115USD depending on the condition (he's selling a really rusted up one for 115USD and its the same as the one i had in the first post) i was thinking if he is willing to sell me one that is usable for a cheaper price i could get it, but i don't know which are compatible..

BTW i'm typing this as i'm cleaning out the motor, managed to remove the main spring and it is FRIGHTENINGLY dirty in there...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: need help restoring a HMV 102e
PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 11:48 pm 
Offline
Victor IV
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2016 7:12 pm
Posts: 1594
Quote:
ptjw wrote: i slotted the tonearm into the hole and taped it over nice and snug...works fine now but it looks like a crappy job or a crapophone as you guys call it? but it works and the music belts out nice and loudly, although its distorted when its really loud at the peaks and i don't know if it is meant to be like that or is it due to the small tear in the diaphragm.


Most likely, the high frequency distortion is due to the tear in the diaphragm, but you may also want to make sure that the pivot joint is okay. The needle bar should be free to plunge in the direction required to track the record, but there should be no sideways movement or shake when you move the needle bar in the opposite direction, or toward the end-caps.

It's really a shame about the tear, because any little puncture such as that will cause a tremendous air leak. While the sound box may still pump out volume, what you're missing is the depth of tone that HMV 102s are noted for. Properly restored, and with the right needle and record, they can sound very close to a small electric phonograph -- with ample mid-range and even some upper bass. Any leaks in the tone chamber--from the sound box to the mouth of the horn -- will reduce the mid-range and bass performance.

If the sound box can be opened, you might consider buying a replacement diaphragm at some point. They sell for about $15.00 (US). While designed for Orthophonic sound boxes, they will easily fit an HMV 5a or 5b sound box. I spotted one for sale here -- http://www.shenandoahrestoration.com/motor.html

As a quick fix, you might try gluing a patch onto the torn area. One method involves cutting a small piece of cigarette paper -- or similar light weight paper -- soaking it in KRAZY Glue, and carefully positioning it over the tear. At the suggestion of a friend, I tried this on one diaphragm and the results were excellent. It performed every bit as well as the diaphragm I eventually replaced it with.

As for the missing back gasket, you might be able to find an appropriate size rubber gasket from your local hardware shop. Even a cut hose of the proper size will work. Try a local auto repair shop or garage and see if they have something that will fit, or can be trimmed to fit.


HTH,
OF


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: need help restoring a HMV 102e
PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 7:13 am 
Offline
Victor Jr
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 9:54 am
Posts: 39
interesting...i tried using tracing paper and glued it over the tear and it did sound slightly less distorted, thanks a lot!!! :)

another piece of bad news...a record i bought from ebay arrived with a crack from rim to label :( it is a total write off...the seller only put a few pieces of newspapers inside the box...i messaged him and said it was far from adequate protection for such a fragile item and wanted a full refund but he only refunded me the price of the record $2USD, i paid $17USD for shipping and he could only stuff newspapers inside?! what a rip-off...

alas..records from the US cost a bomb to be shipped to Singapore...

anyway i managed to clean out the spring motor, cleared out all the gunk and applied new grease...the motor runs faster now compared to before the clean, but i can hear that the motor isn't turning at a constant rate, could a lack of grease be causing this problem? :?: i find myself having to constantly change the speed of the motor to make the music at the correct speed/pitch and it is really freaky listening to an orchestra at a slower rate than supposed to..sounds like a horror show!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: need help restoring a HMV 102e
PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 10:52 pm 
Offline
Victor IV
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2016 7:12 pm
Posts: 1594
ptjw wrote:
alas..records from the US cost a bomb to be shipped to Singapore...!


Out of the millions of people that live in Singapore, there HAS to be a few gramophone and 78s enthusiasts.

I think if I were in your shoes, I'd first of all, scour the internet to try to locate any Jazz related forums, societies, etc., in Singapore. Serious Jazz collectors, it seems, always have a source for 78s and other types of records. If there are any local radio stations that play Jazz, it might be worthwhile to start with them for referrals.

Along this line, also check with and leave your name and number with any antiques, charity, or "used items" type shops in your area, or in the major cities nearest where you live. Many shops, even in the US, will not accept donations or consignments of old records, but may give a referral to someone who does.

And while it's probably a long shot, you might try posting a free message in the WANTED section of your local craigslist board:

Main Page -- http://singapore.craigslist.com.sg/
Items Wanted -- http://singapore.craigslist.com.sg/wan/

When posting an ad, it's best NOT to provide personal information such as your name, phone number or address. You will be provided with an anonymous email address to which any interested parties will reply. Their message will then be forwarded to your own email address.


ptjw wrote:
...the motor runs faster now compared to before the clean, but i can hear that the motor isn't turning at a constant rate, could a lack of grease be causing this problem? :?: i find myself having to constantly change the speed of the motor to make the music at the correct speed/pitch and it is really freaky listening to an orchestra at a slower rate than supposed to..sounds like a horror show!


If the motor is cleaned and lubricated and still slows down while a record is playing, it could be that you simply haven't wound the motor enough. I remember that it took about 25-30 turns of the crank to play a 10 inch record on my HMV 102.

If fully wound, it could be that the governor spindle is not properly mounted. Make sure that the governor, which is held in place between the two governor bearings, does not move sideways. It should be free to spin, but there should only be the tiniest amount of give when you move it length-ways in the direction of the end bearings. Too much movement and it will cause the turntable to slow down, then speed up, then slow down, etc Of course, also make sure that the leather governor foot is lubricated with a few drops of lightweight oil.)

In case you need it, here's a basic (rather generic) lubrication guide for a single spring motor --

Image

HTH,
OF


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 78 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: alang, fran604g, gramophoneshane, Pete Stratford and 5 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Americanized by Maël Soucaze.