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 Post subject: Re: need help restoring a HMV 102e
PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 11:41 pm 
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Victor Jr
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 9:54 am
Posts: 39
a few updates:

i checked the governor and it is secured firmly on both ends such that there is no give when i move it horizontally, but it is free to spin vertically so i can rule that out. there are skidding sounds now and then coming from the motor spring so i can assume that that is the source of the varying speed issue. i'll take it apart once more to give it a more thorough greasing.

also, i managed to get the back of the soundbox open (thankfully without breaking it) and patched up the diaphragm on the front and back. unfortunately the sound is still slightly distorted at the highs and peaks. i just emailed the website Ortho_Fan recommended to me regarding the replacement diaphragm and i'm waiting to see if they could ship me a new diaphragm. but $15USD for a new diaphragm? that can't be true right i thought those things cost way more, maybe there a catch somewhere.. :?

Quote:
As for the missing back gasket, you might be able to find an appropriate size rubber gasket from your local hardware shop. Even a cut hose of the proper size will work. Try a local auto repair shop or garage and see if they have something that will fit, or can be trimmed to fit.
<--- regarding this hose/gasket issue, i suppose i could go and find a tube that fits, but how would i secure it to the soundbox? glue? epoxy?

as usual i'd have to thank everyone (especially Ortho_Fan) with every post i make because each time i think this machine is junked, you guys give me hope that it still can be saved :) yes, granted it is a common HMV 102, but it would be very satisfying for me to see it working 100% one day


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 Post subject: Re: need help restoring a HMV 102e
PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 11:54 pm 
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Victor V
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 4:21 pm
Posts: 2792
Location: Biggenden, Queensland, Australia
I doubt there's a catch with a $15 diaphragm. It's only a thin pressed bit of foil.
As for the spring, you should pack half the space left betwwen the coils in the barrel with grease. This will give you plenty of lubrication, but not so much that it'll squeeze out of the barrel & make a mess.
Also, the governor has to have a little space to move back & forth in the bearings by maybe 0.25mm to 0.5mm. Without that lateral movement, you'll have problems with speed.


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 Post subject: Re: need help restoring a HMV 102e
PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 12:31 pm 
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Victor Jr
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 9:54 am
Posts: 39
oh it HAS to move? ok i'll take a look at it when i have the time...

i emailed APSCO and they replied that they don't have anything related to HMV, understandably they only have parts for AMERICAN machines..here's hoping the website Ortho_Fan gave me would assist me even though it is in the U.S...does anyone have any other references for dealers that could ship parts especially for HMV machines and accessories?

all this while i thought the 'gasket' referred to the rubber connector that links the soundbox and the tonearm, but apparently it is the two rings that hold the diaphragm inside the soundbox? when i took my soundbox apart yesterday i saw that the 'gaskets' were made of cardboard :shock: am i missing something here? i see a few vendors on ebay selling 'rubber/neoprene gaskets for reproducers' and i thought what were those for?

also when i disassembled the soundbox, i thought about even if i did get a new diaphragm, how does one go about replacing it? the needlebar is soldered (?) to the spider (i think that's what its called according to one website i saw) which is glued to the diaphragm. do you have to remove the spider somehow from the diaphragm and then glue it back to the new diaphragm?


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 Post subject: Re: need help restoring a HMV 102e
PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 1:06 pm 
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Victor V
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 4:21 pm
Posts: 2792
Location: Biggenden, Queensland, Australia
ptjw wrote:
i emailed APSCO and they replied that they don't have anything related to HMV, understandably they only have parts for AMERICAN machines..


You've got to be kidding me :lol: Surely they realise that MOST of the Victor parts they offer are identical to those used by HMV :roll:
Amazing!

The needle bar is indeed soldered to the spider. Just heat up the end of the bar with the tip of a soldering iron, and the the 2 will fall apart. If I remember correctly, the spider is more or less glued to the diaphragm with shellac, To seperate them, I'd soak the diaphragm in metholated spirits/alcohol (not sure which you call it in Singapore).

As for the gaskets, all the 5a & b soundboxes I've had, have felt gaskets, which you could cut yourself. I've never seen cardboard used, although I have heard that Japanese Columbias used cardboard gaskets, so perhaps the No'5s with cardboard were assembled in India??


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 Post subject: Re: need help restoring a HMV 102e
PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 1:45 pm 
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Victor V
on instagram as "oncedeadsound"
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 4:35 pm
Posts: 2110
Location: just outside Philadelphia, PA
gramophoneshane wrote:
ptjw wrote:
i emailed APSCO and they replied that they don't have anything related to HMV, understandably they only have parts for AMERICAN machines..


You've got to be kidding me :lol: Surely they realise that MOST of the Victor parts they offer are identical to those used by HMV :roll:
Amazing!

The needle bar is indeed soldered to the spider. Just heat up the end of the bar with the tip of a soldering iron, and the the 2 will fall apart. If I remember correctly, the spider is more or less glued to the diaphragm with shellac, To seperate them, I'd soak the diaphragm in metholated spirits/alcohol (not sure which you call it in Singapore).

As for the gaskets, all the 5a & b soundboxes I've had, have felt gaskets, which you could cut yourself. I've never seen cardboard used, although I have heard that Japanese Columbias used cardboard gaskets, so perhaps the No'5s with cardboard were assembled in India??



I've avoided apsco for a while now (and the prices are just one reason). when I first got into phonographs about 10 years ago, obviously I knew nothing so I'd email and call around when looking for parts or advice... in terms of advice - and I mean, basic basic advice, which was usually combined with a search for parts I was prepared to buy - some people were far more accomodating and helpful than others, and regarding the latter, some were just downright rude.


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 Post subject: Re: need help restoring a HMV 102e
PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 2:52 pm 
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Victor Monarch
I have good days...this might not be one of them
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 5:23 pm
Posts: 4167
Location: Albany NY
I avoid APSCO myself- I've found them to be just plain rude. George Vollema, on the other hand, is a fine man to deal with- though he also deals primarily with American machines you should try contacting him- Victrola@triton.net ...http://www.victroladoctor.com/

You might want to try asking questions on the UK Gramophone Forum : http://gramophones.myfreeforum.org/ but be prepared, there is a rather distinctly different tone over there. They might be able to find you some records- possibly shipping from the UK to Singapore is cheaper than from the USA


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 Post subject: Re: need help restoring a HMV 102e
PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 4:58 pm 
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Victor IV
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2016 7:12 pm
Posts: 1672
ptjw wrote:
oh it HAS to move? ok i'll take a look at it when i have the time...


...but only a tiny bit. Enough to ensure that there is no binding. I base that on my experience with the HMV 102 I had a few years back. It would slow down and then speed up occasionally when a record played, and I traced the problem to the fact that there was substantial back and forth movement of the governor along the shaft.

There are many other reasons for slow down when playing the record in addition to mechanical or motor related issues:

1) The record is play-worn.

2) The record is the wrong type. (Post mid-1930s 78s pressed in the US, for instance, were meant to be played on electrically amplified phonographs. Those made in the 1940s/50s, especially, do not do well on many acoustic type phonographs.)

3) The needle is worn. (A steel needle should be generally used to play one side of one record--two sides at best. Never remove a used steel needle and turn it. That will do a great job of chiseling out your record's groove.)

4) The sound box's needle-bar or diaphragm is frozen or damaged. (While there should be no side-ways (from end cap to end cap) movement of the needle bar, it should move easily in the direction required to track the record groove.)

5) The sound box is positioned at the incorrect angle. (Refer to numerous online photos and youtube videos to ensure that your sound box is tilted at the correct angle.)

I'm sure I've missed a couple dozen, but these are the ones I've had personal experience with.

OF


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 Post subject: Re: need help restoring a HMV 102e
PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 9:07 pm 
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Victor IV
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2016 7:12 pm
Posts: 1672
Oh, by the way, PTJW, I wanted to pass along this web address to you:

A visit to David Row, "The Gramophone Man," of Singapore --

First Part -- http://singapore60smusic.blogspot.com/2 ... david.html

Second Part -- http://singapore60smusic.blogspot.com/s ... avid%20Row

Don't know if Mr. Row is still active in the hobby. I wasn't able to come up with any contact information, but he has posted on a few related sites, for instance -- http://www.collectorsquest.com/blog/200 ... nt-page-1/

Possibly, "Andy Young" might know.

Also, I spotted a number of used record shops for you to check out.

http://www.vintagecollectorsingapore.com/singapore.php

While many or most may not stock old 78s, they may be willing to keep your name on file to give to any sellers that come in with something they don't want.

HTH,
Ortho_Fan


Last edited by OrthoFan on Tue Nov 30, 2010 3:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: need help restoring a HMV 102e
PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 10:39 pm 
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VTLA
User avatar
TMF Moderator
Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2010 9:36 am
Posts: 2729
Location: Delaware
I have bought HMV parts from Ken Priestley in the UK (ken@fonograf.com). He is a very nice and honest guy and very helpful, answers email quickly. If you contact Ken, please give him my best.
Andreas


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 Post subject: Re: need help restoring a HMV 102e
PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 7:16 am 
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Victor V
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 4:21 pm
Posts: 2792
Location: Biggenden, Queensland, Australia
soundgen on UK ebay is another source for HMV parts.


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