Oriental Theme Victrola Cabinets: Authentic or Later Modifications?

[Granby]

Hello! I had some down time today and was curious if any collectors can help me with this. I have seen a few of these "oriental style victrola" cabinets over the past few years at antiques shops, etc. However, as a somewhat new collector, I have a hard time deciphering if the oriental motif was original or a later modification in the 1950's or 1960's. This would be versus an original option offered by Victor Talking Machine Co. in the late teens/early 1920's.

Simply put: How can I tell if it is an ORIGINAL upgrade or modification?

The models I have seen were either light blue or orange inside the cabinet and black on the outside.... I'll see if I can upload some photos for reference....

Thanks in advance!

If this has been discussed here previously, please feel free to point me to a previous thread.

[gramophone78]

First off, the Oriental decoration was offered by independent companies at the same time as the factory offered models.
One of the best telltale signs it's a factory decorated model is the inner lid decal. Factory produced models have the decal placed over the decoration/paint (at least Victor) and not around or covering the decal as seen when done by a third party or a past owner.
Hope this helps.

[Granby]

First off, the Oriental decoration was offered by independent companies at the same time as the factory offered models.
One of the best telltale signs it's a factory decorated model is the inner lid decal. Factory produced models have the decal placed over the decoration/paint (at least Victor) and not around or covering the decal as seen when done by a third party or a past owner.
Hope this helps.

Yes - that helps! And, I had figured that would be a great place to start.... the models I have run across are usually painted right up to the "edge" of the decal under the lid.

Thanks!

[Jerry B.]

the models I have run across are usually painted right up to the "edge" of the decal under the lid.

The painting might be right up to the edge but look through the decal to the mahogany or oak finish. I can't imagine painting over a walnut cabinet but it certainly could have happened. If you see mahogany or oak through the decal it was painted post factory. There were companies that would paint and decorate your machine. There were business that would nickel plate your Edison. There were even companies that would mahoganize an oak cabinet and make it look mahogany. But remember these embellishments or modifications were done when the machine was current. I've read many comments that suggest a cabinet was painted in the 40s or 50s but I seriously doubt this to be true. The things we love to collect went through a fairly long time period when they were essentially worthless. I'd guesstimate this time would range from 1930 to into the 60s. I remember a first generation collector telling me the only reason to buy a Victrola was to cannibalize it for parts. So it's unlikely that someone spent the time and effort to paint and decorate a talking machine unless it was worth something.

Jerry B.

[JerryVan]

Here's a fairly nice example of an aftermarket paint job. On FB right now if anyone has interest, https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/it ... ea46d96721

Notice the painted over lid decal...

[drh]

Here's a fairly nice example of an aftermarket paint job. On FB right now if anyone has ineterest, https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/it ... ea46d96721

Notice the painted over lid decal...

art cabinet.jpg

I would guess, however, that the repaint here dates to the '70s. The base streaky green looks a lot like what came out of application of the "antiquing" kits that were in vogue then (I saw a fair amount of it when it was new; Mom caught the bug), and the flowers strike me as like what was in fashion around that time. I never cared for the look, but somebody did good, neat work, though, I'll grant--a cut above just slapping on the kit color and calling it a day.

[Granby]

All great points! Thanks for the input. One machine I looked at [the one where the paint came right up to the edge of the decal] has very attractive wood grain appearing in the center of the decal. And, the black finish on the exterior the cabinet looked "old" to me, showing signs of wear and "alligator" aging.... It really had an old look. In studying the exterior the cabinet, it appeared ALL hardware was removed prior to the custom job. However, on the inside the cabinet, I did see where a very little bit of the "light blue" or "orange" had made it onto the corners of some hardware - which made me thing it wasn't that "professional"...... hmmm....

[BillH_NJ]

Here is a VV-210 in my collection. It looks like an aftermarket job since the decal was not applied after the interior of the lid was painted, but the exterior looks quite nice (at least to me).

Bill

[JerryVan]

Personally, I see nothing wrong, and perhaps much right, with aftermarket examples, provided that they were done contemporary to the machine, and of course done well.

[JerryVan]

Here's a fairly nice example of an aftermarket paint job. On FB right now if anyone has ineterest, https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/it ... ea46d96721

Notice the painted over lid decal...

art cabinet.jpg

I would guess, however, that the repaint here dates to the '70s. The base streaky green looks a lot like what came out of application of the "antiquing" kits that were in vogue then (I saw a fair amount of it when it was new; Mom caught the bug), and the flowers strike me as like what was in fashion around that time. I never cared for the look, but somebody did good, neat work, though, I'll grant--a cut above just slapping on the kit color and calling it a day.

I got the 70's vibe from this too... Who knows...