Woodgrained metal #10 cygnet horns

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PeterF
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Woodgrained metal #10 cygnet horns

Post by PeterF »

Hi -

Who can tell us definitely the details on the metal cygnet horns, offered by Edison with painted faux-woodgrain finish?

I’m specifically asking about the #10, the ten-panel horn, not the #11 eleven panel.

So, for the US market:

- what year was it originally offered?

- for what model(s) was it intended?

- was it standard equipment, or an extra-cost option?

- when was it discontinued?

Most examples are found today with the sad flaking-paint issue that plagues these as well as the iridescent red fireside and gem small morning glory horns, but I’d think this is a latter day problem. My guess is that they were likely discontinued by the advent of the amberolas, rather than paint problems.

gramophone78
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Re: Woodgrained metal #10 cygnet horns

Post by gramophone78 »

Peter, sorry I can't answer any of the above questions. I can tell you I have had #10's in both oak and mahogany graining.

EarlH
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Re: Woodgrained metal #10 cygnet horns

Post by EarlH »

Back in the 1980's when I was a house painter, I worked for a guy that grained dashboards at the Packard factory in the 1930's. I showed Bill an oak grained horn from an A-250 and he said "They didn't prep the metal right in those days, and that's why the paint isn't sticking anymore" I do think there is something to that, but it stayed put long enough that the Edison people didn't have to deal with failure issues. They must have had some problems as they did change the paint on the bedplates and horns on all of their products as time went on. Bill was convinced there was some residue left on the tin on the horns in manufacturing that eventually caused the paint to fail the way it did on those horns. And that cast iron that was going to be painted was usually sprayed with some kind of oil or wax so it wouldn't rust before it got painted and that may not have been washed off as well as it should have been and that was the trouble there. I do think there is something to his thoughts on that one. Some were no doubt cleaned better than others, and that would explain the inconsistency there. The later black bedplates and horns are japanned and maybe by then they were washing the residue off more thoroughly or the baking process forced them to clean things better.

A fairly strong solution of hot water and soap makers lye will wash the paint that remains off and clean thing up really nicely so you can re-paint your horns or bedplates. Of course some sense needs to be in place when you're using lye and I always keep a pail of clean water around in case I get some on me. If you look up how they clean up nasty cast iron fry pans, it's pretty much the same process.

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phonogfp
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Re: Woodgrained metal #10 cygnet horns

Post by phonogfp »

So, for the US market:

- what year was it originally offered?

The Edison Cygnet Horns became officially available on September 1, 1909. The mahogany and oak finished Cygnets were offered from the first. The wooden Music Master Cygnets didn't appear until the late summer of 1910.

- for what model(s) was it intended?

The Idelia was immediately equipped with a mahogany-finished Cygnet (but that would have been a No.11). The No.10 Cygnet was intended for any model Standard, Home, or Fireside. However, it didn't immediately replace the conventional flower horn, but rather was, "...intended to permit the trade an option..., thus supplying more variety than has heretofore been possible."

- was it standard equipment, or an extra-cost option?

At first only an extra-cost option, but as the supply of conventional flower horns was exhausted, it became standard equipment (with a bump in price, of course). The last of the Triumphs were supplied with oak-finished No.11 Cygnets as standard equipment.

- when was it discontinued?

Cygnets were supplied on Model B Firesides into 1915.

Most examples are found today with the sad flaking-paint issue that plagues these as well as the iridescent red fireside and gem small morning glory horns, but I’d think this is a latter day problem. My guess is that they were likely discontinued by the advent of the amberolas, rather than paint problems.

Since some wood-grained Cygnets are found in nice condition, I believe the flaking paint is a result of poor storage conditions. Rapid and/or extreme changes in temperature cause metal and paint to expand/contract differently. I've seen this on tinplate Ives electric trains, where finding good original paint can be difficult. Lionel, on the other hand, used heavy baked enamel, which resulted in far more good original paint than can found on Ives. For tinplate electric trains and Edison Cygnet Horns, poor storage conditions would have become common once the item was obsolete and put out of the way.

George P.

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PeterF
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Re: Woodgrained metal #10 cygnet horns

Post by PeterF »

Thanks everyone, got what I needed. I have one of these horns, as well as an original crane and back bracket, and am considering installing it - as a correct retrofit - on a machine I have. Wanted to make sure it was authentic and correct using appropriate original parts.

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