Pre-stain wood conditioning.

[Mormon S]

Hey everyone, i am currently in the process of refinishing my HMV, and the best color match I could find was the mowhawk ultra penetrating stain in van dyke brown. One thing that is interesting about the stain is that it dries up VERY fast, making it difficult to get an even stain. I have tried oil based stains to make it easier, but none of them have as good of a color match (the original color is beautiful, and the inside of thw lid retains its finish).

I have read that pre-stain wood conditioning helps even staining and slows down the absorbtion of the stain by the wood. Has anybody tried this and does it help? Any other tips on how to apply the stain properly to prevent blotchiness? I currently wipe the stain on with a paper rag. Thanks!

[JeffR1]

I've (we've) used this stain for many years at the business I worked at, yes, it takes some practice to use it, this is what I did.
Use a a cloth rag, not paper, paper does not hold the stain to wet the wood enough to spread it around, the thirstier the rag the better, those old velour shirts work best and then terry cloth, if you can't find velour.
Pour the stain in a tuna can, don't use it out of the bottle and wear good rubber gloves, surgical gloves will dissolve right away. Ansel brand works well and they also make a black rubber type at most safety supply stores
Go with the grain completing one swipe, beginning and ending from start to finish with your stroke, do not stop in the middle, you have to work fast so each stoke melds into the other.

Applying methyl hydrate, lacquer thinner, or acetone to wet the wood helps, but the colour won't be as rich, but Vandyke Brown is pretty dark and intense, so I don't think you have anything to worry about.

I've never tried something like paint thinner to wet the wood first, that's an oil base product so is essentially not compatible with the stain.

The stain also raises the grain, going over it very lightly the next day with a 400 grit will remove the this, it will pull some colour out, but not enough to make a difference.
The other thing about this stain is if you come back the next day, you can apply more to get to darker, and it will become black if you continue with this.
Something I did was when I was staining quarter cut oak, I used the 400 grit to sand a little more, paying close attention to remove more colour than usual from the quarter cut pattern.
When applying the finish, this high-lighted the grain pattern and made it "POP" really well.

One of the girls that worked with us, did a different method, she started with a larger rag then normal in a large ball and filled it right full.
She worked fast with large circles applying and drying as she went along _ this takes practice too.
One has to be careful to allow the stain to flow out of the rag, if one pushes too hard, it rings the stain out _ and you don't want that.

You're using a commercial product that is easier to apply with low pressure spray gun in a booth, it's sprayed on and immediately wiped off.
It can be diluted then permanently left on.
It's not normally found in your local hardware stores because of this, at least not here in Canada.

Practice on scrap first until you get the hang of it.

Make sure the wood is sanded very evenly, but don't over do it, if it's veneer of course,
Finish up with 220 or if you use a random orbital oscillating sander with 220.
Don't push on the sander, just let the weight of the sander do the job, move it slowly with the grain going from end to end taking one swath and another, don't go helter-skelter all over the place.
If you move it too fast or helter-skelter, it will leave swirly marks. The mark of a DYI sanding job...
This type of sander works very well for fine grain woods, but it has to be done correctly.
Don't over sand your wood, let the stripper do the work, if you're using that gelled stripper, wash it down with methyl hydrate.
If there is still finish on the wood, repeat as many times as necessary to remove ALL of it, do not use sand-paper to remove the old finish.
The slightest amount of old finish left on the wood will keep the Mohawk stain from entering the wood properly and it will be a blotchy sticky mess.

Can't advise you on water based stripper, other then it's quite weak and it takes many application to get the job done.

[EarlH]

I've always just used a brush to apply that stain and if I'm not quite happy with how it looks, I go over it with a rag soaked in the stain. You probably aren't putting enough on to begin with and that's why it's drying so fast and giving you trouble. Usually when I have trouble with something I'm refinishing turning out blotchy, it's because I didn't get all of the old finish off. That stain will usually raise whatever is left of an old finish and let you know it's there. They do make retarder for that stain if you think it's drying too fast. I was given a quart a few years ago, but I've never used it so I can't comment much on that. I really like those stains and they do take some getting used to. They are much more colorfast now than they were 35 years ago. The reds especially.

[VanEpsFan1914]

I fill the grain, do what I need to do with that, scrape it & sand it & get it just-so ready before I wipe it down with mineral spirit.

Then I soak a paper rag in stain and just swab it, let it sit a bit, wipe it off--it's almost like doing painting. If I don't like the look I adjust it: too light, more stain; too dark, rub it with the dry rag.

Usually comes out fine!

[zonophpones7]

I am not home to look at the exact name, but there is an extender, that can be added to the aniline dye stains so they don’t evaporate as quickly to give more time for application. It may give you the extra time and control you are looking For.
Gregg

[dzavracky]

I prefer to first stain the cabinet and then do the grain filling. This was the grain comes out dark, and not changed by whatever dye/stain you use. This is particularly relevant when doing something like a green oak standard/home.

I used the Mohawk stain when I did my Edison home/herzog. I think if you wipe it on sort of heavy, you can wipe off the excess and get an even color. It's been awhile since I used it, so I could be wrong about it.

Looking forward to seeing the finished HMV.

David