Question about an Edison Standard

[Hux160]

I saw this Standard at an antiques store in NJ and had some questions about it. Sorry for only having one pic of it, I didn't have my phone and got this one off Facebook. I never saw a Banner Standard with a 2 clip carriage before. Is this a Suitcase in an upgraded cabinet? The serial number is S29730. With an Automatic Speaker and what looks like an original horn (although the inside was not painted) they're asking $895. Thanks.

Screenshot_20220407-204353_Chrome.jpg (98.89 KiB) Viewed 765 times

[phonogfp]

According to Edison sales data, this Standard (#29730) left the factory in October 1900. It would have had a 4-clip cabinet originally, but the "New Style" cabinets were separately available after their 1901 introduction, so it's possible the original owner "modernized" their machine at that time.

George P.

[Jerry B.]

I'll have a 2&4 minute Model C Standard which is somewhat unusual at the Midwest Expo for about half the price of the Model A in this thread. So in my opinion it's a bit overpriced.

Jerry B.

[Hux160]

Thanks George, that would explain it. I didn't know a suitcase bedplate would fit in a new style case.
Thanks Jerry, I thought it was a little high, but wasn't sure since it has the Automatic reproducer.

[AmberolaAndy]

1900! I would personally still buy it even if it should have the 4 latch case, because it would be the oldest machine I’ve found so far! But $895 is a bit steep. I’ve probably hit the Yankee trader section one of these days to see if I can get any suitcase era model A Edison from 1897-1901.

[zenith82]

I realize I'm a bit late to the discussion, but going by what I've seen with antique mall phonos over the years, it wouldn't surprise me if this one was pieced together in the not too distant past. As such, to me that would hurt its value, especially with having the slightly later case. You can get a nice Standard for around $350-$400 or so if you're patient. I've seen complete examples go for as little as $150 at estate auctions pre-Covid.

At antique shops around here, just having the name Edison on it makes it worth at least a grand in their eyes. Doesn't matter if it's a pile of parts or if it spent the last 75 years in a chicken coop, that name is valuable!

[martinola]

The transition period from the Square top to the New style cases is both fascinating and frustrating in that it is so easy to swap the mechanism. That makes it hard to tell whether it was an early swap, or repair, or a collector reaching into their parts bin and slapping it together.

The early Standards before the New style cases came, had under powered motors and, indeed, the earliest machines had problems with defects and were often returned for repair. Sometimes one can look at subtle details to bear out if the machine was returned for repair. One detail is the patent plate. Edison would repair with parts then on hand. When the early parts ran out, they would use what was being produced at the time. If a bedplate was replaced, they'd use the current patent plate and stamp it with the old number. For example: #24413 should have been a machine with a type 2 nickel patent plate, but it was found with a type 4 plate (with black background and silver highlights) that was introduced in late 1901 or early 1902. The other giveaway is that 4 holes were present on the bedplate corners to hold it to the wood frame. I'm pretty sure that machine found its way back for repairs and came back with the later parts.

The photo above, although it's hard to see, it looks to have the type 2 plate with no holes in the corners. If the lid were a very early New style version, the moulding would be the smoothed profile and would have notches for the straight-footed gear guard, then I could make an argument that the case swap may have happened early on. Generally, I'd avoid correcting "mistakes" on a machine until I've lived with it, because It's hard to know just what happened 120 years ago (or even 20 years ago). That said, the retail price shown is rather high. I'd expect it will sell for less and if bought by collector, this example will probably end up getting sold piece by piece for maximum return.

Martin