Recording Edison 2 minute cylinders

[BigC]

So I have read many post about shaving and recording Edison cylinders, most of them really old posted. I was talking to The Victrola Guy and he will record cylinders for you and they sound really good. I want to really get into the recording side of this hobby but not a lot of concrete information is found. On the old post some are ok with shaving and recording on old Edison black cylinders some aren't. I talked to a very experienced person and he believes recording is basically a lost cause especially if you use Edison Recording cylinders because he believes they won't last. I wish as a community we would pass on the knowledge down of what has been tried so the newest members of the group can continue exploring new ways of recording. When talking to him he explained that he was up in the years and nobody was going to continue when he passed. That by itself should worry all of us because tons of knowledge will be lost. I love this forum and I truly want to continue with this hobby. So if anyone has any information and advice please pass it on.

[recordmaker]

The basics are simple

1. Get a good office shaver with good blade they do get offered on the forum pretty often.
2. Get some Paul Morris blanks
3. Get a good Edison recorder and learn how to change the diaphragm so you can experiment.
4. Make lots of experiments.

I am not sure what you want to record or by what method so cant advise more at his point.

Don't use gold molded records of any type the don't work well and spoil the shaver blade and the cutting stylus.

I am not sure what you meant by "Edison recording cylinders" or that "they wont last".

For more reading scans of the book The Reproduction of sound by Henry Seymour ( 1916) is available on line now and is referenced somewhere on this forum .

[gramophoneshane]

I've used shaved 2 min gold moulded cylinders for recording, BUT they are much harder formula than brown wax blanks so you MUST use a light or some other method, to heat the cylinders surface so the cutting stylus can make a good deep cut while recording.

The GM formula is actually closer to what Edison used to make his black4 min recording blanks, and I've found they seem to record better using a 4 min recorder, but you still need to heat the cylinder to get a decent cut.
I think the thinner 4 min cutter penetrates
the GM records surface far easier than the 2 min cutter does, which increases your chances of a nice loud recording.

If all you have is a 2 min recorder, then I'd recommend just using brown wax blanks and also using a light to warm the wax.
My best recordings were made that way.

I think it's important to remember though, there really isn't some sort of set rules for cylinder recording that can be passed onto new collectors, because there's just far too many variables to make that possible.
Even Edison's original literature on "How to make records at home" acknowledges this saying that things like the horn or speaker tubes you use, placement of instrument or people in front of the horn, and even if you speak directly into or across the horn, will all have an effect on the quality of your recording, and basically recommends you try different things to see what works best for you and the equipment you're using.

I tried several different horns and even made a couple of my own of different sizes and materials, and found I got my best results by far from a simple 24" cardboard cone I made.

Then again, if you're not set on doing it the traditional way, and just want the best quality recording with the least amount of effort, then The Victrola Guy's electronic devise or service is definitely the way to go.
I doubt any of us here doing it the traditional way have a hope in hell of matching the sound quality Victrola Guy achieves.
His device and recordings really are fantastic.
I often think I should get one, but then I think all the experimenting, successes and failures are half the fun of recording cylinders.

As for your friend saying they won't last, he's pretty well right.
Brown wax is quite soft, so just like prerecorded brown wax cylinders, playing them with a reproducer like a Model C with a door knob sapphire and excessive weight will damage the recording and eventually wear it out.
How many times you'd need to play it for that to happen though I really don't know, but I've played some of my recordings dozens of times and they still sound good, but then I don't care too much about them anyway as they're of no historical importance.
And if playing them doesn't ruin them, eventually mold probably will, so no they would last, at least not forever.

[gramophoneshane]

I am not sure what you meant by "Edison recording cylinders"

Edison recording blanks

You could well be right about black wax blunting the cutting stylus.
I've hear that said before.
Personally, I haven't noticed any change in performance of any of the few recorders I have, but I have never examined them under magnification to see if there's any visible damage.
I doubt I've used any of them on black wax more than half a dozen times though, so perhaps if their use on black wax wasn't quite so limited, the cutter getting blunt would become more obvious?

I can't say I'm convinced about black wax damaging the cutter though, because as I said, the 4 min blanks are hard black wax.
Maybe not quite gold moulded hard, but very close. I'd even go as far as to say they're harder wax than Dictaphone blanks.

Still, regardless of what type you're recording on, I think it's best to mount a light to warm the cylinder while recording so the cutter doesn't have to work so hard.
I put a rubber band on the mandrel after the cylinder so that as the warm cylinder expands it doesn't crawl off the mandrel.
And immediately after recording I remove the cylinder from the machine. I learned the hard way that if it's left on the mandrel too long and cools, it can shrink tight on the mandrel and be near impossible to remove.
I was actually surprised it didn't cause the cylinder to split in two.

[BigC]

I was talking about the Edison brown wax blanks. Yes I have seen on some videos that a light is used to warm up the cylinder to get a better recording. Yes I have also heard that the warm cylinder should be carefully removed and allowed to cool before playing it. I want to record some 50s music so when I play the cylinder the music is more recognizable. I did a recording of my grandson singing and everyone was very impressed. I made a adapter and used funnel and a speaker but there was too much distortion. Thank you for your advice I will try it and see what I get. What I will be looking for is a better shaver maybe a Edison shaver.

[BigC]

The basics are simple

1. Get a good office shaver with good blade they do get offered on the forum pretty often.
2. Get some Paul Morris blanks
3. Get a good Edison recorder and learn how to change the diaphragm so you can experiment.
4. Make lots of experiments.

I am not sure what you want to record or by what method so cant advise more at his point.

Don't use gold molded records of any type the don't work well and spoil the shaver blade and the cutting stylus.

I am not sure what you meant by "Edison recording cylinders" or that "they wont last".

For more reading scans of the book The Reproduction of sound by Henry Seymour ( 1916) is available on line now and is referenced somewhere on this forum .

Thank you for the advice. I really want to get a dedicated shaver like a Edison shaver. Hopefully I can eventually find one because using the shaver on my triumph takes a long time.

[BigC]

I tried several different horns and even made a couple of my own of different sizes and materials, and found I got my best results by far from a simple 24" cardboard cone I made.

I saw the video where the Victorola Guy made a horn from a cardboard cone so I will definitely try your idea. Thanks

[BigC]

I went to the local hobby shop like The Victrola Guy said and some members have suggested, in the paper mache section was the cardboard cone. With a ¾ to ½ copper adapter and some black paint I made a really nice witches hat. I'll try this when I record again.

[Stephen_Heatherly]

I've been wanting to start recording, but I don't have a shaver.

[AmberolaAndy]

It’s been 3 years since I got my recorder and I’ve made 0 records so far. I only have been able to get ahold of 1 original blank but it needs the mold shaved off and it’s a record meant for a 4 minute recorder.

I also lack a shaver which keeps me from recording also.