Triumph problem #2 tracking.

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gramophoneshane
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Re: Triumph problem #2 tracking.

Post by gramophoneshane »

Ok, I did a Google image search for Edison Triumph Model B, and they all show the same nickelled plate that I pictured above.
It was on machines with a horizontal and angled carriage, so my conclusion is that you need to get one for your Triumph because yours is missing..

To be honest, if this was my machine I'd try and source a horizontal carriage, a Diamond B and an adaptor ring for your C and H.
That way you'll have a machine that's capable of playing any standard size 2 or 4 min black wax or celluloid cylinder.
If you eventually added a Model B, you could play brown wax cylinders too.

It would definitely be a worthwhile investment, and the good thing is you can pick up everything one at a time as different things become available and affordable.

You'll probably find the half nut you have is ok, and it's skipping now because there's probably only about ⅓ of the nut making contact with the rod.
Once you add that nickelled pressure plate, the whole surface area of the nut will be driving the carriage across and not just a small section of it.
Last edited by gramophoneshane on Sat Jun 18, 2022 2:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

AmberolaAndy
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Re: Triumph problem #2 tracking.

Post by AmberolaAndy »

gramophoneshane wrote: Sat Jun 18, 2022 2:06 am Ok, I did a Google image search for Edison Triumph Model B, and they all show the same nickelled plate that I pictured above.
It was on machines with a horizontal and angled carriage, so my conclusion is that you need to get one for your Triumph because yours is missing..
Yeah. That’s probably my problem. I’ll wait until I get paid next week. And get one with that part still attached.

gramophoneshane
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Re: Triumph problem #2 tracking.

Post by gramophoneshane »

This is one of the images I found, and as you can see, it has the same bar and half nut arrangement as yours, so all those parts appear to be correct.
Personally, I'd only get the pressure plate but just make sure the adjustment screw is present.
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FellowCollector
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Re: Triumph problem #2 tracking.

Post by FellowCollector »

If your Edison Triumph plays a cylinder just fine with a 14" horn it should play just fine with any horn. Can you share a video of the mis-tracking that you're experiencing with the Cygnet horn. I suspect that you have an adjustment incorrect.

Doug

gramophoneshane
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Re: Triumph problem #2 tracking.

Post by gramophoneshane »

He's missing a part from the top of the half nut assembly so no amount of adjustment is going to fix the problem until the top piece with the pressure adjustment screw is replaced.

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FellowCollector
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Re: Triumph problem #2 tracking.

Post by FellowCollector »

I respectfully disagree. While it is true that later model Edison Triumphs, including the model B, had the fine tuning adjustment bar on the half nut bar, earlier models did not and they play just fine without it. So, presuming the half nut itself is in good working order, (and it appears to be when a cylinder is played using a 14" horn), then this suggests that the Triumph here is capable of playing through a cylinder just fine with any horn. And if needed, an adjustment can be made exactly as Jerry Van had previously suggested. Again, if needed. Purchasing the fine tuning adjustment bar simply makes it easier to fine tune the tension of the half nut on the feed screw. But if the half nut tension is carefully adjusted by trial and error using Jerry Van's suggestion (and mine) then there is no need to purchase the fine tuning bar at all except to make the Triumph here period correct. And, for what it's worth, the tension exerted on the reproducer and carriage from a suspended Cygnet horn can also affect play of a cylinder. And so, the suspended Cygnet horn adjustment is also part of the equation for proper play using a Cygnet horn.

Doug

AmberolaAndy
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Re: Triumph problem #2 tracking.

Post by AmberolaAndy »

FellowCollector wrote: Sat Jun 18, 2022 9:42 am I respectfully disagree. While it is true that later model Edison Triumphs, including the model B, had the fine tuning adjustment bar on the half nut bar, earlier models did not and they play just fine without it. So, presuming the half nut itself is in good working order, (and it appears to be when a cylinder is played using a 14" horn), then this suggests that the Triumph here is capable of playing through a cylinder just fine with any horn. And if needed, an adjustment can be made exactly as Jerry Van had previously suggested. Again, if needed. Purchasing the fine tuning adjustment bar simply makes it easier to fine tune the tension of the half nut on the feed screw. But if the half nut tension is carefully adjusted by trial and error using Jerry Van's suggestion (and mine) then there is no need to purchase the fine tuning bar at all except to make the Triumph here period correct. And, for what it's worth, the tension exerted on the reproducer and carriage from a suspended Cygnet horn can also affect play of a cylinder. And so, the suspended Cygnet horn adjustment is also part of the equation for proper play using a Cygnet horn.

Doug
That’s what happened before I got the wise idea of fiddling with the tracking bar…

Now all I get is a non-tracking machine…

Here’s my video of the issue. All trials and errors for me.

https://youtu.be/D8zFQdGv8EU
Last edited by AmberolaAndy on Sat Jun 18, 2022 10:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

AmberolaAndy
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Re: Triumph problem #2 tracking.

Post by AmberolaAndy »

Maybe I have the tracking bar on incorrectly and it’s not lining up with the treads?

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fran604g
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Re: Triumph problem #2 tracking.

Post by fran604g »

AmberolaAndy wrote: Sat Jun 18, 2022 10:30 am Maybe I have the tracking bar on incorrectly and it’s not lining up with the treads?
You could remove the half-nut, place it onto the feed screw threads and "feel" if it mates to the threads fully. It should seat fully with no appreciable slop. Then, when you reinstall it on the bar, be sure the half-nut is seated firmly on the feed screw threads while tightening the 2 mounting screws.
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"Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while" - the unappreciative supervisor.

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FellowCollector
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Re: Triumph problem #2 tracking.

Post by FellowCollector »

The video isn't very helpful since there is no cylinder mounted or play attempted and in the 4 minute play mode it's difficult to see the carriage moving but let us presume by the video that your carriage is not moving at all. So, this first suggests that the half nut is not making contact with the feed screw.

If you examine the picture from Jerry Van (repeated below) you must loosen that carriage screw which will allow the carriage "tube" to rotate within the black carriage sleeve. Rotate the carriage "tube" carefully and slightly downward within the sleeve and you will see the half nut begin contacting the feed screw while the carriage is in playing position. It will take some "playing with" to get the adjustment correct but it CAN be done with patience. Applying trial and error you will eventually get the half nut tension correct so that with the carriage in playing position the half nut will advance on the feed screw. Again, this takes time and patience but you can do it. When the carriage "tube" is adjusted correctly to play a cylinder you can tighten up the carriage screw on the back of the carriage and you're all set.

Doug
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