Triumph problem #2 tracking.

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AmberolaAndy
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Re: Triumph problem #2 tracking.

Post by AmberolaAndy »

JerryVan wrote: Sat Jun 18, 2022 4:06 pm Best of luck to you with your new parts. Just so you're aware, they'll need to be adjusted and fitted properly too. Also, your "new" half nut will most likely be a used one. I'm not aware of anyone making brand new ones. They need to be installed a certain way. It's possible to install them backwards. Let us know how it works out for you.
I understand.

Hopefully they’ll be a less of a pain in the rump to deal with.

But for now all I can do is wait to get my measly funds together. And make sure I have money for food shopping afterwards.

Sorry I couldn’t get it going right. I’m convinced my half nut is worn and my bar is bad too. And possibly my 2/4 minute gearing is out of adjustment somehow.

I’ll probably return with more questions and I hope to have some success. But for now this triumph is out of commission until I can do so.
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gramophoneshane
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Re: Triumph problem #2 tracking.

Post by gramophoneshane »

FellowCollector wrote: Sat Jun 18, 2022 2:57 pm

And regarding a comment above regarding the half nut being the only thing that drives the carriage across the record, this is not entirely correct. With a 2 minute ONLY Edison phonograph this statement is true since the feed screw is directly fixed on the mandrel shaft. But with a 2/4 minute Edison Home or Triumph cylinder phonograph as you discussed here the planetary gear assembly in conjunction with the clutch is rotating the feed screw AROUND the mandrel shaft. And if the planetary gear / clutch assembly are not adjusted properly the carriage can go nowhere
Doug
Now you're just being silly.
The half nut sits on the feed screw and the threaded contact between the two is what pushes the carriage along.
Yes, the planetary gear do what they do to halve the speed the feed screw rotates and the feed screw would stop rotating if it didn't,
But the carriage going nowhere isn't the problem because the planetary gear is adjusted properly.

My whole point of saying what I did was that the one and only contact point between the feed screw and half nut is what drives the carriage across the record, and if it's skipping grooves it's that one and only point of contact that can be adjusted to stop it.skipping.

So it really doesn't matter what the planetary gear is doing because it's not making it skip grooves and can't be adjusted to stop it :roll:
The only thing a badly adjusted PG would cause is the feed screw to turn erratically and the carriage wouldn't progress at the same rate as stylus, but judging by the videos, the feed screw isn't stalling and appears to be turning at a smooth and steady rate.
Last edited by gramophoneshane on Sun Jun 19, 2022 1:14 am, edited 3 times in total.

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gramophone-georg
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Re: Triumph problem #2 tracking.

Post by gramophone-georg »

JerryVan wrote: Sat Jun 18, 2022 4:06 pm Best of luck to you with your new parts. Just so you're aware, they'll need to be adjusted and fitted properly too, using pretty much all the same advice and techniques that you've been given. Also, your "new" half nut will most likely be a used one. I'm not aware of anyone making brand new ones. They need to be installed a certain way. It's possible to install them backwards. Let us know how it works out for you.
Yes, unless I somehow missed this and it's already been done, but Andy, I'd remove the half nut, turn it 180 degrees, reinstall it, and try that. Seems to me I remember that the little "blades" on these half- nuts are beveled on one side and flat on the other so that it can really only be pushed along one way.

And, nevermind... that's Columbia. Sorry
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AmberolaAndy
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Re: Triumph problem #2 tracking.

Post by AmberolaAndy »

gramophone-georg wrote: Sat Jun 18, 2022 5:24 pm
JerryVan wrote: Sat Jun 18, 2022 4:06 pm Best of luck to you with your new parts. Just so you're aware, they'll need to be adjusted and fitted properly too, using pretty much all the same advice and techniques that you've been given. Also, your "new" half nut will most likely be a used one. I'm not aware of anyone making brand new ones. They need to be installed a certain way. It's possible to install them backwards. Let us know how it works out for you.
Yes, unless I somehow missed this and it's already been done, but Andy, I'd remove the half nut, turn it 180 degrees, reinstall it, and try that. Seems to me I remember that the little "blades" on these half- nuts are beveled on one side and flat on the other so that it can really only be pushed along one way.
Oh! You mean unscrew the half-nut from the bar turn it around then screw it back in? Haven’t tried that Yet… :oops:

I’ll try that when I’m done taking care of my dad and my headache goes away.

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gramophone-georg
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Re: Triumph problem #2 tracking.

Post by gramophone-georg »

AmberolaAndy wrote: Sat Jun 18, 2022 5:27 pm
gramophone-georg wrote: Sat Jun 18, 2022 5:24 pm
JerryVan wrote: Sat Jun 18, 2022 4:06 pm Best of luck to you with your new parts. Just so you're aware, they'll need to be adjusted and fitted properly too, using pretty much all the same advice and techniques that you've been given. Also, your "new" half nut will most likely be a used one. I'm not aware of anyone making brand new ones. They need to be installed a certain way. It's possible to install them backwards. Let us know how it works out for you.
Yes, unless I somehow missed this and it's already been done, but Andy, I'd remove the half nut, turn it 180 degrees, reinstall it, and try that. Seems to me I remember that the little "blades" on these half- nuts are beveled on one side and flat on the other so that it can really only be pushed along one way.
Oh! You mean unscrew the half-nut from the bar turn it around then screw it back in? Haven’t tried that Yet… :oops:

I’ll try that when I’m done taking care of my dad and my headache goes away.
Sorry, I was mistaken, That was Columbia that has that design, not Edison. :oops:
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AmberolaAndy
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Re: Triumph problem #2 tracking.

Post by AmberolaAndy »

gramophone-georg wrote: Sat Jun 18, 2022 5:54 pm
AmberolaAndy wrote: Sat Jun 18, 2022 5:27 pm
gramophone-georg wrote: Sat Jun 18, 2022 5:24 pm

Yes, unless I somehow missed this and it's already been done, but Andy, I'd remove the half nut, turn it 180 degrees, reinstall it, and try that. Seems to me I remember that the little "blades" on these half- nuts are beveled on one side and flat on the other so that it can really only be pushed along one way.
Oh! You mean unscrew the half-nut from the bar turn it around then screw it back in? Haven’t tried that Yet… :oops:

I’ll try that when I’m done taking care of my dad and my headache goes away.
Sorry, I was mistaken, That was Columbia that has that design, not Edison. :oops:
Well I took it off anyway and took some photos. If anything looks worn or out of place please notify me!
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gramophone-georg
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Re: Triumph problem #2 tracking.

Post by gramophone-georg »

Andy, do you have the Eric Reiss book?
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FellowCollector
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Re: Triumph problem #2 tracking.

Post by FellowCollector »

"Well I took it off anyway and took some photos. If anything looks worn or out of place please notify me!"

The half nut bar and half nut appear to be fine although the threads in the half nut do appear very shallow.
gramophoneshane wrote: Sat Jun 18, 2022 5:14 pm Now you're just being silly.
The half nut sits on the feed screw and the threaded contact between the two is what pushes the carriage along.
Yes, the planetary gear do what they do to halve the speed the feed screw rotates and the feed screw would stop rotating if it didn't,
But the carriage going nowhere isn't the problem because the planetary gear is adjusted properly.

My whole point of saying what I did was that the one and only contact point between the feed screw and half nut is what drives the carriage across the record, and if it's skipping grooves it's that one and only point of contact that can be adjusted to stop it.skipping.

So it really doesn't matter what the planetary gear is doing because it's not making it skip grooves and can't be adjusted to stop it :roll:
I'm not going to engage in further discourse on this but I will conclude my contribution to this thread by suggesting that you consider working on a few more Edison and Triumph 2/4 minute planetary gear and clutch assemblies and their affect on moving the carriage. To state "That half nut is the only thing that actually drives the carriage across the record" is completely irrational as there is a lot more going on that impacts carriage movement. My commentary on the 2/4 minute planetary gear and clutch assembly affecting movement of the carriage was another possible issue to consider. You disagree and that's perfectly fine.

All of this said, I respect your contribution to this thread as this person needs help and I applaud anyone reaching out to help.

Doug

JerryVan
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Re: Triumph problem #2 tracking.

Post by JerryVan »

Nicks in the lead screw can cause skipping. Look very closely at the ½ nut as it passes over these spots. See if the nut lifts slightly and skips in these areas.
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JerryVan
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Re: Triumph problem #2 tracking.

Post by JerryVan »

George,

I'm pretty sure Edison used butress threads also.

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