Help with a Columbia BI Sterling Disc Graphophone

[CarterP935]

The nice thing about ball bearings back then is that many are going to be standard sizes. A good bicycle shop should have one, and I bet they can set you up with one at a cost of a few cents.

The bearing should give it a little more willingness to spin. It is a beautiful phonograph and I think you're just about to have it working.

As I showed in the above post, I think that is the bearing. It looks a little off center to me, but I don't think that would cause too much of a problem, yet I may be wrong. I do thank you for the help.

[outune]

Glad you found the set screw- Re: the "bearing" you pictured--
1) The 'bearing' I think we are all referencing is an actual ball-bearing that would go down into the hole and the end of the spindle would ride on it.
2)The sleeve type 'bearing' you show doesn't look right to me. I have sold all my early Columbia machines and parts so can't look at one to compare-- Sorry- To me that doesn't look like it should be there... But my old feeble brain might not be remembering. Hopefully someone who can put eyes on their own motor can advise you better on that.

Brad Abell

[CarterP935]

Glad you found the set screw- Re: the "bearing" you pictured--
1) The 'bearing' I think we are all referencing is an actual ball-bearing that would go down into the hole and the end of the spindle would ride on it.
2)The sleeve type 'bearing' you show doesn't look right to me. I have sold all my early Columbia machines and parts so can't look at one to compare-- Sorry- To me that doesn't look like it should be there... But my old feeble brain might not be remembering. Hopefully someone who can put eyes on their own motor can advise you better on that.

Brad Abell

Well, looking at some photos that had been sent on this forum, other than my own, it shows what looks like that sleeve bearing on theirs. Yet, the shaft of my turntable looks a bit indented on the end, like it would ride on a ball bearing, so that may be the problem. Running a toothpick gently along the inside of the bearing hole let me feel that there is nothing round in the bottom, it is flat, so I may be missing that ball bearing. I guess my problem now would be finding that correct size of ball bearing.

I will say, after working on this machine for almost a month, it has begun to drive me up the wall with frustration. I am a patient man, but this motor has thrown everything it can at me to not work.

I really do thank you for all of the help, it honestly means quite a bit to me.

[outune]

I think you've got it figured out- I've collected and restored phonos for 46 years-- and I'm still learning! Many years ago, after a few frustrating repairs, I sat myself down and reminded myself that this is a hobby-- If I have a specific time expectation for getting work done, then it becomes a job. Sometimes I just have to sit a project back on the shelf and revisit it in a few days, or a few weeks. In the end, hearing a machine play, perhaps for the first time in decades, is still a great reward.

Brad Abell

[CarterP935]

I think you've got it figured out- I've collected and restored phonos for 46 years-- and I'm still learning! Many years ago, after a few frustrating repairs, I sat myself down and reminded myself that this is a hobby-- If I have a specific time expectation for getting work done, then it becomes a job. Sometimes I just have to sit a project back on the shelf and revisit it in a few days, or a few weeks. In the end, hearing a machine play, perhaps for the first time in decades, is still a great reward.

Brad Abell

Actually, sitting down, taking another look at it and observing how it runs when it is vertical with the governor pointing straight up, and how when I flip it on the horizontal, like it should function, I think the problem may lie with the governor itself, for that is the only thing that really moves enough to make a difference. And with enough friction, it will easily bring it to a stop. I don't have it super tight or super loose, but I think that when I bring it horizontally, as it should be in the normal way of functioning, that is when it stops. Maybe its the end of the shaft that goes into that little bearing that slides back and forth, or just the bearing itself catching on it somehow. I have a spare governor shaft, so maybe I will give that a go and see how that functions.

I just think that the shaft and all of that is fine since it will run without the governor on it. But, that is just a hunch of mine.

[Hoodoo]

Hmmm, it may be the governor shaft, as you say, but there should really be a single ball for the bottom of the spindle shaft to bear on. That is essential, I think.
Perhaps the shaft looks to be at the proper depth (look like there is a ball in place) because the big and small bevel gears are meshed as far as they can go, so sit in what looks to be their proper position when the motor board/lid is tilted up, but when it is closed, the weight of the turntable is enough to force those gears together too tightly to run.
Have you tried running the machine with the lid closed and the turntable removed?

[JerryVan]

Have you tried running the machine with the lid closed and the turntable removed?

Excellent question!

[CarterP935]

Hmmm, it may be the governor shaft, as you say, but there should really be a single ball for the bottom of the spindle shaft to bear on. That is essential, I think.
Perhaps the shaft looks to be at the proper depth (look like there is a ball in place) because the big and small bevel gears are meshed as far as they can go, so sit in what looks to be their proper position when the motor board/lid is tilted up, but when it is closed, the weight of the turntable is enough to force those gears together too tightly to run.
Have you tried running the machine with the lid closed and the turntable removed?

I have tried running it with the turntable on and off of it, and it just will not run at all in the normal operating horizontal position. If I turn the mechanism on it’s side, with or without the turntable (even at like a 45 degree angle), it will run just as it normally would. I don’t see anything binding up that could cause this to happen when I turn it back horizontally. Even if I flip the entire mechanism upside down with the turntable spindle straight down, it stops running. It only will run when the governor side of the machine is pointed in an upward direction.

[FellowCollector]

With no tension on the motor, remove the governor. Lower the motor board. Holding the spindle and / or turntable give the crank a couple of turns and let the spindle rotate under some tension but without letting it go out of control. Evaluate the motor under this slight tension WITHOUT the governor in place. If the spindle / turntable spin freely with no binding at all then it's likely your governor assembly. If it still doesn't run then the governor is likely not the problem.

[CarterP935]

With no tension on the motor, remove the governor. Lower the motor board. Holding the spindle and / or turntable give the crank a couple of turns and let the spindle rotate under some tension but without letting it go out of control. Evaluate the motor under this slight tension WITHOUT the governor in place. If the spindle / turntable spin freely with no binding at all then it's likely your governor assembly. If it still doesn't run then the governor is likely not the problem.

After doing what you suggested, the turntable will turn freely just after 2-3 turns of the crank and will quickly pick up speed. I did notice the turntable/spindle has some side to side play in it that makes the turntable tilt if you apply barely any pressure. Obviously, this may make no difference under a full wind, but I do worry that that slight tilting side to side could mess up the connection of the fiber gear to the governor worm gear.