Early Pooley VTLA, No.884, Factory Second, Need Help

[Django]

I was either lucky or unlucky enough to to find a Pooley, flat top VTLA yesterday. The motor, horn and reproducer are missing. The motor is not the same as on the later VTLA, even the later Pooley VTLA has a different motor and horn casting, (the horn casting on this one is small and the wood must have been curved, and sadly, someone had broken the horn and thrown it away instead of removing the screws. The machine had been converted into a liquor cabinet.

I should be able to recreate the horn, but the motor is the real problem. The crank is slotted and the winding shaft is approximately 4” forward of the position that the later Pooley machines have it. Some motors have an extra gear in the winding train and run the shaft over to the other side and the motor is rotated 180 degrees. I had those castings and tried that with a motor from an early L door, but it was still off.

If anyone knows what motor I should be looking for or a way to convert a motor to work with this cabinet, please share it. If anyone has a motor to sell, I would be interested if the price was not astronomical. I think that the motor is probably the same as what was used in an early Victor VI. I am not very optimistic, but I would love to get this machine back together. If I can’t get the needed motor, I will still clean the cabinet and keep it safe or offer it for sale if someone has a motor for it.

I love that decal.

[Django]

I believe that this is the motor that I need.

[Jerry B.]

I believe that this is the motor that I need.

I believe you are correct. Is that the motor that's also in the Victor D?

Jerry B.

[Django]

I believe that this is the motor that I need.

I believe you are correct. Is that the motor that's also in the Victor D?

Jerry B.

I believe that the VTLA and the VI motors were nickel plated, but I think that a Victor D or MS motor would work fine and I would be happy to get either. If anyone knows more about these earliest Pooley VTLAs, please share your knowledge. I never thought that I would stumble upon one.

I only have one machine with a bevel geared motor, (my Monarch), so I am quite ignorant when it comes to these 1906 era machines.

[Django]

Does anyone know the approximate realistic value of an early Pooley VTLA? I am trying to figure out how much to put into this one.

Thanks

[EarlH]

The one I have is serial number 816 and it has the later motor in it, but it does have that earlier all wood horn with the small iron ring that mounts it under the tone arm. The one I have also does not have the drawer above the horn for the needles. It has the needle cups inside the turntable compartment and it has the sawtooth lid support instead of the on the folds in the center. Maybe this cabinet got stuck behind others and was finished later. From kind of watching these things for a few years it seems like many of the changes Victor eventually made on this style cabinet, most of them were made in the 8 and 9 hundreds as far as the serial number goes.

It would be a lot cheaper to put the later style XVI motor in there not to mention much easier to find. I'm pretty sure the later style horn will work in there as well and you won't have to change anything. It seems like I put both styles of horns in mine to see how close they were. I probably have one around here if you want me to look for it. I have no idea about what they are selling for these days but I would think it would be hard to get $1,000 out of one right now, unless it was something really special or a very early one. The one with the drawer above the horn does seem to bring the value up a fair amount.

Good luck with your cabinet. I've had a few of them now and they all needed a lot of work. I'm getting ready to refinish this last one, which is fairly late (it seems like it's in the mid 1800's for a serial number) Can't say that I really made money on any of them, but it also would have been a shame not to make them look nice again. I don't mind working cheap, but I wouldn't be very happy about getting $500-$1,000 more into something than I could ever get back out of it.

[Jerry B.]

I believe, but not absolutely sure, that a MS motor would lineup with the factory crank hole. But if you install the later VTLA motor, you're looking at an extra crank hole. I'd hate to see that. (My opinion)

Jerry B.

[Django]

The one I have is serial number 816 and it has the later motor in it, but it does have that earlier all wood horn with the small iron ring that mounts it under the tone arm. The one I have also does not have the drawer above the horn for the needles. It has the needle cups inside the turntable compartment and it has the sawtooth lid support instead of the on the folds in the center. Maybe this cabinet got stuck behind others and was finished later. From kind of watching these things for a few years it seems like many of the changes Victor eventually made on this style cabinet, most of them were made in the 8 and 9 hundreds as far as the serial number goes.

It would be a lot cheaper to put the later style XVI motor in there not to mention much easier to find. I'm pretty sure the later style horn will work in there as well and you won't have to change anything. It seems like I put both styles of horns in mine to see how close they were. I probably have one around here if you want me to look for it. I have no idea about what they are selling for these days but I would think it would be hard to get $1,000 out of one right now, unless it was something really special or a very early one. The one with the drawer above the horn does seem to bring the value up a fair amount.

Good luck with your cabinet. I've had a few of them now and they all needed a lot of work. I'm getting ready to refinish this last one, which is fairly late (it seems like it's in the mid 1800's for a serial number) Can't say that I really made money on any of them, but it also would have been a shame not to make them look nice again. I don't mind working cheap, but I wouldn't be very happy about getting $500-$1,000 more into something than I could ever get back out of it.

I appreciate the input, thank you. This one is a bit odd. It has the feature above the horn opening that would indicate a needle drawer, but it doesn’t have one and it does have the typical needle cups.

I should be able to make a horn that will connect to the smaller casting. I have a side bender for guitar building, so I think that I will do that.

[Django]

I believe, but not absolutely sure, that a MS motor would lineup with the factory crank hole. But if you install the later VTLA motor, you're looking at an extra crank hole. I'd hate to see that. (My opinion)

Jerry B.

My opinion as well. I am going to take the motor and board from my Monarch and see if the winding shaft comes out where it should,(I will not be stealing it from my Monarch. This is only a test).

This one will probably end up being a labor of love. I don’t tend to give up easily. I welcome all input.

[Django]

It turns out that the QC department at Victor or Pooley overlooked some missing holes. The holes for the hinges were drilled on the other side, but only one hole per hinge on this side. Who do I complain to???

It’s coming along. I have a motor board coming and a horn installed. I’m still looking for the early, three spring, bevel geared motor.