The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

It is currently Sun Jan 19, 2020 4:04 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 46 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: How the pro's wind a mainspring
PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 11:01 pm 
Offline
Victor III
User avatar
So many phonographs, so little money
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 8:12 pm
Posts: 939
Location: The Garden State
Aaron wrote:
Ok guys I finally got to writing my thoughts…

Heres what I think…

Ok so as Shane stated I too think it is intended to wind the spring and then wire it NOT putting it directly into the barrel.
First for the point labeled A I think this is where the end of the spring with the clip would attach. Then it would be attached to the part I have labeled B. The part labeled C is obviously used to crank the spring and wind it and the part labeled D is a ratchet system so that the spring doesn’t cause the spring to un wind. Now the parts labeled E I have no clue what they do and they may not have any purpose at all… Steve says he recalls something being “reversed” so the spring may have been wound backwards and then reversed when placed in the barrel. I seem to recall at one point seeing on TV something about main springs and if I remember correctly they wound it backwards until it was ready to be placed where it was needed. So other that that I am un sure. Perhaps ill find some time to do some research and see if I can find out more.

Aaron


I think I too am coming to belief that it is just for coiling the spring and not for insertion into a barrel.

I am thinking that "A" functions as a guard to keep the spring from "flopping" around. The spring would pass through the hoop formed by "A" and connect to "B". It looks like "A" can pivot around and hold the end of the spring to the wound bundle in preparation of wiring. Someone mentioned before that "E"'s should be set so the main winding shaft passes through the v opening. These could be adjusted to keep the spring from sliding side to side.

So, spring is feed through "A", hooked to "B" and wound up. "A" holds end of spring to the bundle and operator wraps and tightens a wire to hold the spring bound. Rached "D" is disengaged and the winding arm "B" is turned backwards which disengages if from the spring. Winding arm "B" is extracted and the spring is free.

Now, all that is left is to determine the provenance of this item.
Why do we need signatures when we are on a first avatar basis?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: How the pro's wind a mainspring
PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 11:39 pm 
Offline
Victor II
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 4:08 pm
Posts: 320
Location: Somewhere looking for a 9ft Brass Horn
Brad,

You basiclly sumed it up... :D The only reason i can see as to why this would be shipped to a consumer is this.Pehaps it was being sent to a dealer that was either doing repairs or setting up spring for somene needing them for repairs.He would wind and tie the spring and then send that to the person who needed it or simply wind it and keep the spring until he needed it for repairs.We figured out half the mystery(kinda) so lets put our thinking records on the turntable(or mandrel) and figure out the rest of this ;)

Aaron


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: How the pro's wind a mainspring
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 9:51 am 
Offline
Victor IV
User avatar
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2009 5:40 pm
Posts: 1600
Location: Holy Loch in Argyll and Bute
MordEth wrote:
As far as I can tell, he’s talking about the handle being reversed, as you would want it to point outwards to be able to wind a spring with it, but having it turned inwards is far more convenient for storage/transportation.

Yes and no, David. I was referring to the handle of course, but I was also referring to something else which is disengaged through the process and reversed - I think Brad could be very close here! ;)

As for provenance, all I can tell is that it came from a gramophone factory via a collector and dealer. I don't think it was ever intended to be sold to a private consumer / shop repair man etc. We could be wrong though.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: How the pro's wind a mainspring
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 6:36 pm 
Offline
Victor II
User avatar
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 5:57 pm
Posts: 268
Location: The Granite State
I Imagine this winder originally came with an assortment of different size C clamps for the various sized barrels that were employed. You would wind the spring up on the winder and then slip the clamp over the wound spring, making sure the spring is wound a bit tighter than the ID of the clamp. You would then reverse the ratchet and allow the spring to unwind inside the clamp until it is held tight and won't unwind any more. You would then remove the clamped spring and place it inside the mouth of the barrel (providing you used the right clamp) and then tap the spring into the barrel with a wooden or plastic mallet. You of course have to position the spring so when it goes into the barrel, the barrel hook catches the hole in the spring.
This is how it works with clock mainspring winders, so I'm assuming this is utilized in the same manner.

:clover:
Check with your dealer for the latest Edison Records!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: How the pro's wind a mainspring
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 7:56 pm 
Offline
Victor II
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 4:08 pm
Posts: 320
Location: Somewhere looking for a 9ft Brass Horn
I thought to make it easy on other readers(other then the few of us that have really been trying to figure this out) I decided to put our thoughts that seem most likly so they were able to read.Her is what we have so far.

The spring is feed through "A", hooked to "B" and wound up. "A" holds end of spring to the bundle and operator wraps and tightens a wire to hold the spring bound. Ratcheted "D" is disengaged and the winding arm "B" is turned backwards which disengages if from the spring. Winding arm "B" is extracted and the spring is free. This winder originally came with an assortment of different size C clamps for the various sized barrels that were employed. You would wind the spring up on the winder and then slip the clamp over the wound spring, making sure the spring is wound a bit tighter than the ID of the clamp. You would then reverse the ratchet and allow the spring to unwind inside the clamp until it is held tight and won't unwind any more. You would then remove the clamped spring and place it inside the mouth of the barrel (providing you used the right clamp) and then tap the spring into the barrel with a wooden or plastic mallet. You of course have to position the spring so when it goes into the barrel, the barrel hook catches the hole in the spring.
This is how it works with clock mainspring winders, so I'm assuming this is utilized in the same manner. The only reason I can see as to why this would be shipped to a consumer is this. Perhaps it was being sent to a dealer that was either doing repairs or setting up spring for someone needing them for repairs. He would wind and tie the spring and then send that to the person who needed it or simply wind it and keep the spring until he needed it for repairs. As for provenance, all I can tell is that it came from a gramophone factory via a collector and dealer. I don't think it was ever intended to be sold to a private consumer / shop repair man etc. We could be wrong though.

And here is the diagram


Attachments:
f_HOME0312060m_4eb3d45.jpg
f_HOME0312060m_4eb3d45.jpg [ 64.84 KiB | Viewed 796 times ]
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: How the pro's wind a mainspring
PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:12 am 
Offline
Victor IV
User avatar
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2009 5:40 pm
Posts: 1600
Location: Holy Loch in Argyll and Bute
Any ideas what "E" was for?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: How the pro's wind a mainspring
PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:20 am 
Offline
Victor IV
User avatar
Contact me for TMF tech support.
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 2:01 pm
Posts: 1104
Location: Boston, MA
Steve wrote:
Any ideas what "E" was for?

I had thought that it was to keep the barrel in place, but perhaps it was intended for safety reasons, in case whoever was winding the spring lost control of it?

I’m guessing, though. ;)

— MordEth

Proudly supporting phonograph discussion boards, hosting phonograph sites and creating phonograph videos since 2007.
Need web hosting or web (or other graphic) design? Support MordEth by using BaseZen Consulting for all of your IT consulting needs.
Want more phonograph discussion? Be sure to visit The Online Edison Phonograph Discussion Board.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: How the pro's wind a mainspring
PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:14 am 
Offline
Victor III
User avatar
So many phonographs, so little money
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 8:12 pm
Posts: 939
Location: The Garden State
I think they should be positioned such that the winding shaft "B" passes through the "Vee" opening and then they would be positioned side to side to hold the spring from side to side.
Why do we need signatures when we are on a first avatar basis?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: How the pro's wind a mainspring
PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 9:42 am 
Online
Victor V
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 4:21 pm
Posts: 2523
Yep, I came to that conclussion too a page or two back :) I think it was more or less a guide to keep the spring winding evenly, and the winding arbor should pass through the "V".
I'm still at a loss where the pliers & 2 clamps/clips are concerned.
I thought perhaps the pliers would be for twisting the wire ends together, but they look a little big at the ends, and are a completely different shape to my old fencing pliers.
I also thought that because of the shape, they may have been used to slide along the arbor bar to help disengage the spring?

Do they have a wire cutter on the side Steve?

Those 2 clamps are a mystery though.
I was thinking that if the 2 big black "V" shaped bits were some sort of guide, they'd have to be far enough apart to allow the frame that goes over the spring, to pass inbetween the V's.
Then I thought maybe the clamps were attached to the winding arbor as the true guide, but they would rotate with the arbor as you wound it, so that doesn't seem to make sense either.

Do the clamps look to be the right size to fit the arbor bar?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: How the pro's wind a mainspring
PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 12:59 pm 
Offline
Victor IV
User avatar
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2009 5:40 pm
Posts: 1600
Location: Holy Loch in Argyll and Bute
gramophoneshane wrote:
they'd have to be far enough apart to allow the frame that goes over the spring

That's the second time someone has mentioned a "frame". What do you mean by that?

Does anyone know how they produce springs in the factory? That might help us decide how this apparatus works? Are you all sure this isn't for winding a spring into a barrel? Also, those "V" shape bits would surely be a different shape with just a circular hole through for the winding arbor if you're all right about their purpose? I can't see why they'd be that shape?

The jury's still out on this.......


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 46 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], dwkucera49, fran604g, Google [Bot] and 9 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Americanized by Maël Soucaze.