Edison Spring Motor/Triumph Questionnaire

[ChuckA]

George here's another Spring Motor for your list:


1) Serial number (found on top): 28243

2) Is serial number stamped in a plate, or a raised boss? BOSS


4) Does straight edge (where front of reproducer carriage rides) have 2 screws? NO

5) Does the upper casting have lugs for Class M pulley wheels? NO, CAN SEE FAINT GRIND OFF MARKS

6) Which secures the endgate; a ball catch, or a locking lug? BALL CATCH

7) Does carriage hold the reproducer with nickeled clips, or a single screw at 2:00 position? UPGRADED TO HORIZONTAL CARRIAGE, CYGNET HORN & O REPRODUCER

8) Motor number (found stamped on front of motor frame): 7657

9) Are the motor gears solid or spoked? SOLID

10) If there’s a plate below the mandrel, what exactly does it say? SEE PICTURE BELOW

SM Tag.jpg (100.6 KiB) Viewed 1514 times

11) Which does the cabinet have; a drawer, a banner decal, or an “Edison” script decal? DRAWER

12) Are there any dated material with it? Invoices? Packing slips? Writing inside the lid? NOTHING FROM THE PERIOD. JUST A LETTER FROM 1974 OFFERING TO BUY IT FOR $175 OR TRADE AN OPEN WORKS PHONO FOR IT.

Chuck

[phonogfp]

Thanks, Chuck! Your timing is perfect - - you'll see why in the next issue of The Antique Phonograph!

George P.

[hbick2]

This is my first post to the Forum, so forgive me if I mess up. I collected a lot during the 70’s and 80’s but kind of went dormant until now. I stumbled across the Spring Motor/Triumph thread and was quite interested in it. I contacted George a while back, but was too late to be included in the article. I have two Triumphs, but the oldest of the two will be of most interest to folks. Apparently, it may be the oldest Triumph A that has yet to be found. The serial number is 30136.

I acquired this phonograph back in the 70’s by trading a banjo neck for it to a friend. It had belonged to his grandparents, who were antique dealers in Louisville, KY. It was found in the top of their garage along with a front-mount Victor horn. It was so dirty when I got it, I didn’t even realize there was a decal on the front. After a few Kotton Klenser applications, I discovered the banner decal along with the original finish. Both were bright and clear. Having collected various things in my life, it was quite clear to me that this phonograph had never been messed with by a collector or dealer. It was the same as it was when the original owner stopped using it. What has always fascinated me is the fact that this was one of the Triumphs that was upgraded to a 4-ball governor, which necessitated the replacement of the motor frame as well as other parts. I remember seeing this upgrade offered in the Edison Phonograph Monthly. A Model “O” reproducer was included.

One of the things I noticed about this particular phonograph is that the serial number is also stamped on the top of the straight edge. I’ve seen this in pictures of Spring Motor Phonographs but not Triumphs. I was wondering if any other Triumphs had this.


Edison Spring Motor/Triumph Questionnaire
1) Serial number (found on top): 30136 (also found on straight edge)
2) Is serial number stamped in a plate, or a raised boss? Plate
3) If stamped in a plate, what’s the last patent date? May 31, 1898
4) Does straight edge (where front of reproducer carriage rides) have 2 screws? No
5) Does the upper casting have lugs for Class M pulley wheels? No
6) Which secures the endgate; a ball catch, or a locking lug? Ball Catch
7) Does carriage hold the reproducer with nickeled clips, or a single screw at 2:00 position? NA-Upgraded to horizontal carriage
8) Motor number (found stamped on front of motor frame): 15266
9) Are the motor gears solid or spoked? Solid
10) If there’s a plate below the mandrel, what exactly does it say? NA
11) Which does the cabinet have; a drawer, a banner decal, or an “Edison” script decal? a banner decal
12) Are there any dated material with it? Invoices? Packing slips? Writing inside the lid? No

[phonogfp]

Thank you, hbick2! Please post or PM your name so I can acknowledge you in the event of a future article.

This is indeed the lowest-numbered Triumph I've encountered. As I wrote in an article on "The Edison Spring Motor/Triumph Phonographs" in the current issue of The Antique Phonograph, the switch from Spring Motor to Triumph took place "right around serial #30,000."

This Triumph makes 191 machines in the database, but I've passed over many more encountered on eBay or other places because they fit into the middle of a block of similar machines and provided no new information. (However, every machine contributed here goes into the database, regardless.)

Thanks again to everyone who has helped, and who continue to help in this project.

George P.

[hbick2]

Here is the information on my Triumph E

Edison Spring Motor/Triumph Questionnaire
1) Serial number (found on top): 84771
2) Is serial number stamped in a plate, or a raised boss? Plate
3) If stamped in a plate, what’s the last patent date? May 22, 1906
4) Does straight edge (where front of reproducer carriage rides) have 2 screws? No
5) Does the upper casting have lugs for Class M pulley wheels? No
6) Which secures the endgate; a ball catch, or a locking lug? NA
7) Does carriage hold the reproducer with nickeled clips, or a single screw at 2:00 position? Horizontal Carriage
8) Motor number (found stamped on front of motor frame): 66961
9) Are the motor gears solid or spoked? Solid
10) If there’s a plate below the mandrel, what exactly does it say? NA
11) Which does the cabinet have; a drawer, a banner decal, or an “Edison” script decal? Edison Script
12) Are there any dated material with it? Invoices? Packing slips? Writing inside the lid? None dated, but a reproducer tag was inside

Here are photos of the tag found inside:

[phonogfp]

Thanks again, hbick2 - you're keeping me busy!

For what it's worth, your E is the lowest numbered I've encountered; just over 1000 higher than the highest D2.

That's an interesting tag - thanks for sharing it.

George P.

[epigramophone]

Thank you, hbick2! Please post or PM your name so I can acknowledge you in the event of a future article.

This is indeed the lowest-numbered Triumph I've encountered. As I wrote in an article on "The Edison Spring Motor/Triumph Phonographs" in the current issue of The Antique Phonograph, the switch from Spring Motor to Triumph took place "right around serial #30,000."

This Triumph makes 191 machines in the database, but I've passed over many more encountered on eBay or other places because they fit into the middle of a block of similar machines and provided no new information. (However, every machine contributed here goes into the database, regardless.)

Thanks again to everyone who has helped, and who continue to help in this project.

George P.

Congratulations to hbick2 for posting the earliest Triumph yet discovered. I had a feeling that it would only be a matter of time before an earlier example than my 30360 would appear.

Interesting that 30136 appears to have a change speed lever for the combination gearing, whilst 30360 relies on pushing and pulling the clutch housing in and out.

[hbick2]

I don't think the change speed lever should be there. It doesn't work very well. As I said before, I don't think this phonograph was ever in the hands of a collector so I imagine it was put there when the motor changes were made.

Does your Triumph have the serial number on the top of the straight edge?

By the way, I'm Harry Bickel and I live in Louisville, KY

[epigramophone]

Here is my questionnaire entry :

My Triumph Model A :

1) 30360
2) Plate
3) 31 May 1898
4) No
5) No
6) Locking Lug
7) N/A (Horizontal carriage & Diamond B)
8) 16295
9) Solid
10) No plate
11) Banner decal
12) Nothing

Glad to help.

Roger Mackey

[hbick2]

Thanks, Roger.

I have two more questions:

1. Does your Triumph also have the serial number on the top of the straight edge? If your look at my photo taken straight down at the bedplate, you can clearly see 30136 stamped on the top edge. I had assumed that this was a carryover from the Spring Motor days, but I'm not sure that was standard on them. I've seen pictures of them with and without the serial number. Maybe George can answer this.

2. You said your Triumph A has a "locking lug". I may have the nomenclature wrong but I described my as a "ball catch". Is your's the same as mine?

Harry