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 Post subject: Re: EMG's Vespas and more
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2020 3:04 pm 
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Victor III
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Keep'em well oiled
Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:51 am
Posts: 793
Location: Madrid, Spain
The Expert/EMG could be a monster built-up from parts, but the horn looks authentic and in good shape. God, if I only could buy a horn and tonearm like those, I also would build-up my own super-gramophone, like our japanese colleague hideki watanabe, alias watanabehi in this forum. I've planned to do that for years, since I first read Percy Wilson's book with instructions on how to build an exponential horn...
Inigo


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 Post subject: Re: EMG's Vespas and more
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2020 3:52 am 
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Victor III
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Location: Dover, UK
Inigo wrote:
The Expert/EMG could be a monster built-up from parts, but the horn looks authentic and in good shape. God, if I only could buy a horn and tonearm like those, I also would build-up my own super-gramophone, like our japanese colleague hideki watanabe, alias watanabehi in this forum. I've planned to do that for years, since I first read Percy Wilson's book with instructions on how to build an exponential horn...

Some years ago I was getting serious about doing the same thing, building a horn to the designs in Percy Wilson's "Armchair Phonatics" articles, when I was offered my first EMG/Expert, also an Expert Junior - prior to that I'd always wanted one but never thought it would happen - now I've ended up with a collection of them, amazingly!

It doesn't seem to matter much with EMGs and Experts if they are built-up from parts, so long as everything is correct. The only thing that would concern me, aside from the provenance, is the surface of that horn - it has a "smeared" look, as if perhaps a layer of varnish has been applied (never a good thing to do to these horns) and the surface pattern of the paper has been smudged. I could be wrong, however. One would need to see the horn up close in person.
BCN thorn needles made to the original 1920s specifications: http://www.burmesecolourneedles.com

Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCe4DNb ... TPE-zTAJGg?


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 Post subject: Re: EMG's Vespas and more
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2020 7:47 am 
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Victor IV
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2009 6:18 am
Posts: 1055
Orchorsol wrote:
Some years ago I was getting serious about doing the same thing, building a horn to the designs in Percy Wilson's "Armchair Phonatics" articles, when I was offered my first EMG/Expert, also an Expert Junior - prior to that I'd always wanted one but never thought it would happen - now I've ended up with a collection of them, amazingly!.


Our forum member Graham Rankin made a number of oversize EMG horns out of fiberglass, an amazingly painstaking effort with reportedly great results. I am not aware of any tentative to make Expert horns, which are structurally and in format quite different from the EMGs. As to Peppiatt's machine, its horn can be seen in many of the you tube videos he made, in some cases in close-up. Its bell looks original, but it may hide defects on the parts not shown. I also remember him mentioning in one of his videos that he had that light switch installed because he was concerned with the safety of the switch that was originally on the machine. To me the main shortcoming of the machine is the lack of the Expert soundbox, which would cause a substantial damage to the eventual new owner's finances, if he/she wishes to bring it back to its original condition. I personally avoid electrical machines, I only have two of them, as these old motors are a fire hazard.


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 Post subject: Re: EMG's Vespas and more
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2020 9:16 am 
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Victor VI
An analogue relic trapped in a digital world.
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:21 pm
Posts: 3237
Location: The Somerset Levels, UK.
When I bought my Expert Minor at auction it had the remains of the original twin core cotton braided power cable attached with insulating tape to a length of 3-core PVC cable.
For safety and peace of mind I immediately had the motor professionally overhauled and rewired to modern safety standards.

One advantage of electric gramophone motors, other than not needing to be wound, is that there are more people qualified to repair them than there are to replace springs.
For me, an acoustic machine with an electric motor is the best of both worlds.


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 Post subject: Re: EMG's Vespas and more
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2020 9:55 am 
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Victor III
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Keep'em well oiled
Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:51 am
Posts: 793
Location: Madrid, Spain
My wife horrorized at the sole sight of the photo of that monster.... :D she said simply: 'not that...'
But I'm more of less involved in a project that could be more wife-pleasant... And it is to build a giant exponential horn using one corner of a room. There you have a 2.20m high usable corner, which can be converted into an exponential horn, simply adding the third side: a series of boards enclosing a triangular cross-section horn expanding towards the ceiling. It would be ended some 80cm below the ceiling, adding another triangular board at ceiling corner, oriented so that it would reflect the sound towards the centre of the room, the ceiling and the corner walls acting as the horn final flare.. The sound would be fed at the bottom narrow end, near the floor, throug a semi-rigid hose coming from the base of the tonearm. And the final touch would be a corner library hiding the horn behind it. The big triangular board on the ceiling corner would be seen over the library, but it could also be embellished, by means of making it with a good looking varnished wooden board, to which small light focuses could be attached for a better look. It still is a project to which calculations should be made, to make the real dimensions. The gramophone could be a portable one, prepared with a fast connection to receive the sound hose. The lower part of the library should have a closet with doors, so you can open them to reach the lower horn end, with another fast connection to receive the other end of the hose. The hose and portable gramophone could be stored away in a wardrobe when not in use. In this project, what I see more complex is to make the hose, as it would be a pipe of expanding cross section, flexible but stiff enough to support the sound pressure, with the two fast connections at either end.
Inigo


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 Post subject: Re: EMG's Vespas and more
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2020 11:13 am 
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Victor III
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Location: Dover, UK
CarlosV wrote:
I personally avoid electrical machines, I only have two of them, as these old motors are a fire hazard.

I do respect that view Carlos, especially as I've worked in fire safety for some years! But the majority of mine have electric motors and I'm not overly concerned personally - they're all checked over, in good order, rewired (with earth connections they never had originally) and I have RCDs in the mains supply.
BCN thorn needles made to the original 1920s specifications: http://www.burmesecolourneedles.com

Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCe4DNb ... TPE-zTAJGg?


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 Post subject: Re: EMG's Vespas and more
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2020 3:52 pm 
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Victor IV
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2009 6:18 am
Posts: 1055
Orchorsol wrote:
I do respect that view Carlos, especially as I've worked in fire safety for some years! But the majority of mine have electric motors and I'm not overly concerned personally - they're all checked over, in good order, rewired (with earth connections they never had originally) and I have RCDs in the mains supply.

Yes, Andy, rewiring and proper grounding would be necessary to put these motors in a safe condition. This would probably be required on the machine being auctioned, adding to the total cost. As to the availability of people to do such work that Roger mentioned, around here there is none, neither electricians nor mechanical technicians, so I had to develop myself the ability to replace springs, which I did a number of times, the most challenging being a formidable pair of them in an Edison Opera - but rewinding motor coils would be a major pain! One of the electrical motors I have was rewired, it is an US Brunswick Cortez,110 V, and I added an external switch, but the other one, a Pathé motor, is in its original state and I am not going to plug it until I find someone capable to rehaul it. Actually, I only bought it because I had never seen an electrical Pathé before, and at the time I naively imagined I would easily find a technician to fix it. Ten years later ...


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 Post subject: Re: EMG's Vespas and more
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 7:07 am 
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Victor Jr
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Posts: 21
Despite 30% buyer's premium, the lack of the original soundbox, the wrong motor, the unrestored case, the missing lid support etc. the Expert Junior reached 2000£!

How interesting. I'd really like to know if EMG and Expert gramophones increased in value lately or this happened because it is "quite famous in the right circles".


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 Post subject: Re: EMG's Vespas and more
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 9:08 am 
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Victor VI
An analogue relic trapped in a digital world.
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:21 pm
Posts: 3237
Location: The Somerset Levels, UK.
I doubt that an infamous previous owner who moved in the wrong circles would have much effect on the machine's value, but at £2600 including Buyer's Premium it was no bargain.


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 Post subject: Re: EMG's Vespas and more
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 10:12 am 
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Victor Jr
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Posts: 21
epigramophone wrote:
I doubt that an infamous previous owner who moved in the wrong circles would have much effect on the machine's value, but at £2600 including Buyer's Premium it was no bargain.


As I said considering all the aspects one has to address to properly restore it and the 30% buyer premium I did not expected the machine to be sold at that price unless it is consistent with the today's value of such gramophones (this is what I'd like to know) - the comments of the auctioneer were quite curious too.


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