Tell Me Pretty Maiden by Vess Ossman (announced Victor)

[Viva-Tonal]

Who's Steve Hoffman? A member here?

No. A mastering engineer with his own music forums at www.stevehoffman.tv

[Viva-Tonal]

The 1930's and early 1940's jazz re-issues on Bluebird and Victor "Swing Classics" were original stampers, generally alternate takes. Most of these had lead-in grooves added. For example, the Bix Beiderbecke Memorial Album contains several alt. takes. Same is true of some of the Mound City Blue Blowers stuff on Bluebird. Of course the IRCC re-issues of celebrity vocals used original stampers, when they were available, as did the Victor White Label special order series. I still have a few copies of original stamper vinyl pressings of a couple of Caruso items that my father and Aida had made in the early 'sixties.

Historic Masters in the UK have issued vinyl pressings direct from original Gramophone Co Ltd and EMI metal parts for a lot of early 20th century classical and operatic performers for quite a few years now.

Imagine if they (or another organisation so inclined) could do the same here, issuing limited edition vinyl pressings direct from many classic jazz, blues and country masters!

[Wolfe]

Imagine if they (or another organisation so inclined) could do the same here, issuing limited edition vinyl pressings direct from many classic jazz, blues and country masters!

That would be interesting. But in the (likely) scenario that the records were 40-50 dollars apiece, my buying would be limited to only any titles of the highest personal desire to own, if there were any.

[Wolfe]

No. A mastering engineer with his own music forums at http://www.stevehoffman.tv

Hmmm, from a glance it looks like a great place to chat about 'classic rock' acts. Not too much 78 rpm stuff.

[Uncle Vanya]

There's the classic Bennie Moten 25000 series Victor of "South" (I think it came out on a Swing Classic label at one point) which was in the catalog for a long time. It's got the diamond VE in the runoff which would lead you to believe it wouldn't be a dub, but guess what? Most of them are. I forget the story behind that particular disc ending up as a dub, the earliest copies aren't dubs. And just try to find almost any early 40s Bluebird that isn't a dub...I think I went through about six copies of Glenn Miller's "Pennsylvania 6-5000", for example, until I finally got a master pressing. The others sounded like they were being played through a wool blanket!

Sean

"South" was of course originally issued on V-38021, in the "Race" series. After the cancellation of the 38000 series the side was re-issued in the 16000 popular series as 24893, in May of '34. Early issues retained the VE in an oval, and were pressed from original stampers. Sometime in 1936 or '37 the side was dubbed and reissues as 24893 with the "Swing Classic" scroll label. This number was retained for some subsequent "Circle" label pressings. I have in my collection a 1940 or 1941 vintage "Coin Operator's Special" pressing of this title which used a (worn) original stamper on one side (VE in oval) and the artificially enhanced "diamond" re-recording on the other. Not much to chose between the two, sides, though, as the original stamper was so word it was entirely lacking in highs. This would suggest that the original matrix did not exactly "break". Remember that the Victor engineers at the turn of the 'Forties had some pretty odd ears, and replaced many beautiful, clear, crisp recordings with "improved" over-modulated crap (witness the horribly mal-recorded NBC symphony sides of the period, many of which are no improvement at all over Philadelphia Orchestra or Philharmonic-Symphony waxings from 1928.

[hillndalefan]

I play the Ossman solo, being a classic banjoist who studied with a student of Fred Van Eps [Howard Weilmuenster of Ballwin, Mo.]. At the time, it was announced that the RCA people looked for the oldest master that was still in the vaults, and that was how they hit on Tell Me, Pretty Maiden. After RCA bought the Victor Talking Machine Co. in 1929, they raided the vaults and got rid of the vast majority of the acoustical masters. Why they held on to this one [along with the Caruso masters] is anyone's guess. We KNOW why they held on the Carusos - there was still a lot of money to be made there. Bob Ault

[Wolfe]

I play the Ossman solo, being a classic banjoist who studied with a student of Fred Van Eps [Howard Weilmuenster of Ballwin, Mo.].

Fascinating! What a lineage of classic banjo playing.

At the time, it was announced that the RCA people looked for the oldest master that was still in the vaults, and that was how they hit on Tell Me, Pretty Maiden.

That still begs the question (without flogging a dead horse.) Since this seems to be a dubbing (from a commercial shellac) pressing, why would this title be accorded special distinction for issue when there are many earlier existing titles that could have been used in the same way? Unless the simple fact of there being an old dusty master sitting on a shelf was supposed to mean something significant (without the commemorative record actually being produced from it.)

After RCA bought the Victor Talking Machine Co. in 1929, they raided the vaults and got rid of the vast majority of the acoustical masters. Why they held on to this one [along with the Caruso masters] is anyone's guess. We KNOW why they held on the Carusos - there was still a lot of money to be made there.

I don't know, from what I've heard there was lots of stuff left in Camden when the storage facility was demolished, masters and all. But I wouldn't discount the possibillty that they at the acoustical matrices were pruned out and deemed of no further value, especially during the scrap metal drives of WWII. I'm trying to think of how many direct pressed acoustical records I may have that were issued after RCA bought Victor, and not many come to mind.