30s Bluebird Sleeves?

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Lah Ca
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30s Bluebird Sleeves?

Post by Lah Ca »

A lot of work has been done on documenting changes in record labels over the years.

Sleeves seem to have been ignored.

I have two records on the Canadian Bluebird label which are of local historical interest. They are both from 1934. I plan to donate them to a museum here and I would like to submit them with period appropriate sleeves. I have a variety of different Bluebird sleeves. I am not sure which ones would be most historically appropriate.

Any suggestions?

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Re: 30s Bluebird Sleeves?

Post by Inigo »

I'm sure several among us notice and give their value to the record sleeves, which many of us collect. I'm aware of the different bluebird sleeves, both American and Canadian, but I couldn't tell which one belongs to which era except for the war bonds advertisements on some of them.... Maybe a specialist jumps in...!
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Re: 30s Bluebird Sleeves?

Post by epigramophone »

Lah Ca wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 5:02 pm
Sleeves seem to have been ignored.
They have not been ignored in the UK. Covers (the term "sleeve" did not come into general use until the LP era) have been the subject of a regular series of articles in the CLPGS magazine since 2004. I took over as their author in 2016.
I wish I could help with Bluebird, but we don't see many of them over here.

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Re: 30s Bluebird Sleeves?

Post by Lah Ca »

The records in question here are B-4977 and B-4978, Canadian releases. Both records are by the Vancouver Kitsalano Boys Band.
Screenshot from 2023-05-31 13-55-43.png
Screenshot from 2023-05-31 13-56-06.png
Screenshot from 2023-05-31 13-54-48.png
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Here, from Simon Fraser University archives, is a post card of the band from around the same time period as the records. The second link shows the back of the card which lists the band's various awards.

https://digital.lib.sfu.ca/bcp-1230/msc130-0473-01

https://digital.lib.sfu.ca/bcp-1231/msc130-0473-02


Internet Archive gives a publication date of 1937 for B-4978 as B-6946, the US release.

https://archive.org/details/78_king-cot ... ia0390819a

https://archive.org/details/78_washingt ... ia0390819b


UC Santa Barbara, which hosts, DAHR, Discography of American Historical Recordings, gives a recording date of 7/22/1934 for B-4977, the Canadian release in their collection.

https://adp.library.ucsb.edu/index.php/ ... ada-B-4977

I would assume both recordings were done on the same day in 1934.


An article on Bluebird record labels, however, suggests that the particular Canadian releases pictured above may be from the early 1940s. The authors state that the B-2200 to B-4999 series ran from April 1934 to March 1942. Both B-4977 and B-4978 are late in this series.

https://capsnews.org/apn1993-1.htm
B-2200 - B-4999 was called an International series that was current from April 1934 to March 1942 (Rust). We have identified two series, the first is a B-4800 - B4999 series which includes some Canadian country and French Canadian recordings. This series ran from probably 1933 - 1935 (Barr). The second runs from art least B-4680 (July 1940) to B-4730 (November 1941) (Barr). This series includes Canadian popular material. We feel both these series might be exclusively Canadian but this needs more research.
The same article but with colour illustrations.

http://www.78rpmrecord.com/blblabl.htm


Are the disks in my possession reissues? Or were the Canadian releases later than the American release? Or are Internet Archive and DAHR both wrong? I am certain that if I took the time to troll through newspaper microfiche archives I would find a story about the band's recording session which would firmly anchor the recording, if not the release of my two records, in time.

It is all very interesting and slightly confusing, and it gets me no closer to choosing appropriate sleeves/covers. LOL.

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Re: 30s Bluebird Sleeves?

Post by Lah Ca »

Lah Ca wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 10:49 am An article on Bluebird record labels, however, suggests that the particular Canadian releases pictured above may be from the early 1940s. The authors state that the B-2200 to B-4999 series ran from April 1934 to March 1942. Both B-4977 and B-4978 are late in this series.

https://capsnews.org/apn1993-1.htm
B-2200 - B-4999 was called an International series that was current from April 1934 to March 1942 (Rust). We have identified two series, the first is a B-4800 - B4999 series which includes some Canadian country and French Canadian recordings. This series ran from probably 1933 - 1935 (Barr). The second runs from art least B-4680 (July 1940) to B-4730 (November 1941) (Barr). This series includes Canadian popular material. We feel both these series might be exclusively Canadian but this needs more research.
The same article but with colour illustrations.

http://www.78rpmrecord.com/blblabl.htm


Are the disks in my possession reissues? Or were the Canadian releases later than the American release? Or are Internet Archive and DAHR both wrong? I am certain that if I took the time to troll through newspaper microfiche archives I would find a story about the band's recording session which would firmly anchor the recording, if not the release of my two records, in time.

It is all very interesting and slightly confusing, and it gets me no closer to choosing appropriate sleeves/covers. LOL.
Sometimes I can be quite thick, not understanding what I read: "We have identified two series, the first is a B-4800 - B4999 series which includes some Canadian country and French Canadian recordings. This series ran from probably 1933 - 1935 (Barr). "

Within the B-2200 to B-4999 series, there are two sub-series. One would expect the numbers to increase chronologically, but why should things make any sense? The earlier of the two sub-sequences has the larger numbers, B-4800 to B4999, and this would fit completely with a recording date of 7/22/1934 and a Canadian release no later than 1935.

Still no help with choosing a cover/sleeve, though. :lol:

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Re: 30s Bluebird Sleeves?

Post by Lah Ca »

OK ... going to the lateral thinking part of my brain in an effort to solve this problem, I hit upon the idea of looking at corporate logos on Bluebird catalogues, which are dated.

The more abstract and stylised perched bluebird image seems to have been the standard on catalogue covers up until 1939-ish.
2023-06-10 07.24.23 storage.googleapis.com ae5fe34f07d2.jpg
The still stylised but more realistic bluebird in flight replaced the perched bird in about 1939.
2023-06-10 07.25.06 storage.googleapis.com 4a4b608fce73.jpg
2023-06-10 07.25.06 storage.googleapis.com 4a4b608fce73.jpg (66.15 KiB) Viewed 455 times
Therefore, I suspect that this perched bluebird style sleeve/cover would be appropriate to a mid-1930s record:
2023-06-10 07.22.42 www.wirz.de e120b4ee1fc6.jpg
2023-06-10 07.22.42 www.wirz.de e120b4ee1fc6.jpg (72.83 KiB) Viewed 455 times
I further suspect this bluebird in flight style sleeve/cover would be anachronistic:
2023-06-10 07.27.28 www.wirz.de 5e35760ee699.jpg
2023-06-10 07.27.28 www.wirz.de 5e35760ee699.jpg (59.96 KiB) Viewed 455 times

Ref: https://storage.googleapis.com/wzukuser ... spart1.pdf

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Re: 30s Bluebird Sleeves?

Post by drh »

Lah Ca wrote: Sat Jun 10, 2023 10:41 am OK ... going to the lateral thinking part of my brain in an effort to solve this problem, ....
Quite appropriate--the vertical thinking part would be better for Pathé or Edison. ;)

Interesting and ingenious approach, but I see one problem: the label in your "mid-'30s" photo has the more realistic flying bird. Not sure, then, if the illustrations give really dependable guidance. That said, the "stylized" type sleeve does have an earlier "feel" than the "realistic" one. In particular, the "stylized" sleeve's text refers to "electrically recorded," whereas the other one is silent on that issue. Electric recording was already the norm, and hence questionably remarkable, in 1935, but it definitely would have been no cause for crowing in 1939.

Oops--crowing--back to Pathé again!

Moreover, "electrically recorded" also appears on the earlier record label, not on the later one.

[edit] Hmmm...a thought just occurred. Does either have a list of "records you should own" on the back? If so and the more ephemeral ones, like dance band hits, cluster around a certain period on one and a different period on the other, you might have a good clue, and certainly a list containing records released in, say, 1938 would not date to the early-mid '30s.
Last edited by drh on Sat Jun 10, 2023 11:37 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: 30s Bluebird Sleeves?

Post by Lah Ca »

drh wrote: Sat Jun 10, 2023 11:22 am
Lah Ca wrote: Sat Jun 10, 2023 10:41 am OK ... going to the lateral thinking part of my brain in an effort to solve this problem, ....
Quite appropriate--the vertical thinking part would be better for Pathé or Edison. ;)
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

drh wrote: Sat Jun 10, 2023 11:22 am Interesting and ingenious approach, but I see one problem: the label in your "mid-'30s" photo has the more realistic flying bird. Not sure, then, if the illustrations give really dependable guidance. That said, the "stylized" type sleeve does have an earlier "feel" than the "realistic" one.
True. The corporate logos on the catalogues are only suggestive of what might be an appropriate sleeve/cover.

But on the "B" side of this issue (on the other hand didn't seem appropriate as one should not put one's hands on the playing surfaces), there is seemingly the fact that the Bluebird record labels always had the bird in flight image and never the perched bird one.

Ref: http://www.78rpmrecord.com/blblabl.htm

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Re: 30s Bluebird Sleeves?

Post by Lah Ca »

drh wrote: Sat Jun 10, 2023 11:22 am [edit] Hmmm...a thought just occurred. Does either have a list of "records you should own" on the back? If the more ephemeral ones, like dance band hits, cluster around a certain period on one and a different period on the other, you might have a good clue, and certainly a list containing records released in, say, 1938 would not date to the early-mid '30s.
Good idea. Thanks. I don't know if there are ads for other records on the backs of the Bluebird sleeves/covers in my collection. I don't recall, but I will look.

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Re: 30s Bluebird Sleeves?

Post by drh »

Lah Ca wrote: Sat Jun 10, 2023 11:33 am
drh wrote: Sat Jun 10, 2023 11:22 am
Lah Ca wrote: Sat Jun 10, 2023 10:41 am OK ... going to the lateral thinking part of my brain in an effort to solve this problem, ....
Quite appropriate--the vertical thinking part would be better for Pathé or Edison. ;)
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

drh wrote: Sat Jun 10, 2023 11:22 am Interesting and ingenious approach, but I see one problem: the label in your "mid-'30s" photo has the more realistic flying bird. Not sure, then, if the illustrations give really dependable guidance. That said, the "stylized" type sleeve does have an earlier "feel" than the "realistic" one.
True. The corporate logos on the catalogues are only suggestive of what might be an appropriate sleeve/cover.

But on the "B" side of this issue (on the other hand didn't seem appropriate as one should not put one's hands on the playing surfaces), there is seemingly the fact that the Bluebird record labels always had the bird in flight image and never the perched bird one.

Ref: http://www.78rpmrecord.com/blblabl.htm
Fair enough--and in case you missed it, I've edited my earlier posting with some additional thoughts. [edit] oops! I missed your immediately preceding post. :oops:

I like the "B" side. :D

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