Edison Long Play Sample Record

[barnettrp21122]

How did you figure out it was an LP? Many people would have tried to play it with a standard reproducer and mechanism and damaged it.

There's a little more to my story about finding it. There were a few long-play records also in the group (I bought those too) and also, the fact this example, compared to other sample records, has no separate bands between selections.
I have a nice BC Baby Console that was dealer-fitted with the long play kit (thread-pitch gear assembly, extra spring barrel, long play reproducer and holder) but have never used it on these.
Bob

[pughphonos]

Bob, I'm a bit late in adding to this marvellous thread. As you might remember, I'm probably the newest member of the informal "Edison Long Play enthusiasts" group and am catching up on posts on the topic.

BTW, I sent my LP reproducer off for a new stylus; I expect it back in the mail any day now. I'm the one who has upgraded his S-19 Sheraton to LP capability.

Anyway, THANKS for making all those MP files of the contents of your LP sample disc. Several things struck me about it--the main one being that it must have been produced in the Edison LP era (1926-27), BUT many the standard discs dubbed on it date from several years before. For example, the Lucia Sextette piano transcription (performed by Himmelreich) was recorded in October 1922! All of the records chosen for the big LP sample record are of sedate, sentimental, traditional pieces of music (vocal or otherwise) without a single example of the hot Edison jazz that was being produced in 1926-27 (B.A. Rolfe being an example of the latter). My theory is that the Edison production teams were concerned that "blast" problems might result if they dubbed jazz titles onto the narrow LP grooves--and therefore they went with more traditional, sedate--and older--releases.

It is tantalizing to speculate that if the LP system had survived beyond 1927, that electrically-recorded jazz selections might have eventually found their way onto this medium. But it was not to be.

Ralph

P.S. That disc of yours has to be worth $1000 easy. Yes, what an incredible find.

[barnettrp21122]

Thanks for your comments, Ralph! Yes, I agree that the sampler choices were rather sedate. I think the company wanted to promote the new system as a background music provider as much as anything else. I agree too that the higher volume level of the late dance records might have posed a problem in dubbing attempts.
I was interested to see that you're getting a replacement long-play stylus installed. I wasn't aware that anyone made them. Maybe yours is new old-stock? Just be sure to test any new stylus on the blank runout
area of a disc to make sure it's not cutting into the record surface.
Bob

[pughphonos]

Hi Bob, I've sent off my Long Play reproducer to the Victrola Repair Service in Vermont. Ray there says that he's worked on Edison LP reproducers before; they've always done excellent work for me in other areas. I didn't think to ask him as to where he would get the new stylus, so I will do that. He checked the stylus that had been on there and said it was worn.

(Interesting how the principal owner of that shop started out as a kid with his grandparents' Edison S-19 but now uses the title "Victrola Repair Service"--though he and his co-workers service everything. I think that's just a recognition of the greater currency of the Victrola name).

Good point about the Edison people apparently intending the LP system for background music--and it didn't survive long enough to get past that usage. That "sampler" of yours is a clue in itself. I mean, it is promoting a bunch of Edison standard short-play discs and not itself, supposedly, and yet it must have really been meant to do the latter. The NON-dance material on the LP sampler disc is a signal that one is NOT to dance to the LP machine as it was more likely to skip than the standard machines playing standard records. Hence the evolving segregation of the records and machines of 1926; 1926 is also the year the "dance reproducer" came out for the standard machines, correct?

Poor Edison in 1926-27 was offering the public short & long options as well as separate dance & listening options. But none of this stopped the electric onslaught. In this context, 1927 at Edison makes more sense. The experiments of 1926-27 were tossed, as were all the pre-1927 machines; electrical recording was introduced in a last effort to save the Diamond Discs, Blue Amberols and vertical recording.

1926-27 is therefore incredibly fascinating in its own right.

It must have been rough for the Edison studios in the summer and fall of 1926, trying to record both for the standard discs and the LPs--especially as I've read that the LP recording sessions involved several false starts. So the sample disc was a quick way to get another LP out there--even if meant only for distribution among Edison jobbers and the few dealers left in 1926-27.

I promise I will test the new stylus only on blank portions of the records before setting it into the grooves. The 40 minute LPs are particularly expensive. Last one I saw sold on E-bay went for $305.

As I type this I'm listening to an Edison standard disc on my S-19; in a few days I can be listening to my LPs, if everything checks out.

Ralph

[pughphonos]

Hi Bob,
I've heard back from the Victrola Repair Service in Vermont and they use the Expert Stylus Company in England for many of their styli. The Expert Stylus Company has a web site and they seem to have years of experience, including the acoustical era and the specific brands. I'll provide the link to that below. Even so, I will of course set the new stylus down in the blank, outer band to make sure she's running smoothly and leaving no damage before I set it into the grooves.

http://www.78tours.com/Expert_Stylus_Company.htm

[VintageTechnologies]

Be careful, I have heard some unfavorable reports about the Expert Stylus Company's diamond needles over the past few years. I hope anyone with more current information than mine will chime in. I had a discussion with Wyatt Marcus about 4 or 5 years back. He was returning most of Expert's diamonds because they were poorly made. I heard elsewhere the company had passed from the owner to his sons and that quality had suffered. I have also seen complaints on this very website about bad diamonds. Not wanting to damage my nice records, I have concentrated on buying only original diamond needles in exceptional condition. I use a stereo microscope of at least 75x to make the evaluations.

[OrthoSean]

It's still an issue. Steve Medved convinced them to replace two defective ones of mine. They came in, I installed them, played a few sides with no issue, then....you guessed it LINES! These are now the ninth and tenth respective defective styli I've had from them. I'm out a grand.

I'm still waiting for somebody to make something of quality as now I refuse to play any of my DD machines and electrical reproduction is my only safe choice.

The odd thing is, they make perfect replacements for the Diamond series of cylinder reproducers that have no problems at all>

Sean

[barnettrp21122]

Ralph, your research involving these issues is interesting. The majority of 1926-27 Diamond Disc issues weren't being dubbed to Blue Amberols if I recall what I've read, and to me it's hard to see how at that point it was decided which ones would be dubbed, given the nearly non-existent market for the cylinders at that point.
The earlier dubs you've listed would certainly fall into the rural lower-income category of customers still buying cylinders in the late teens, and the same disc titles would have found their way into most higher-end homes by the time the sample record was produced. Using old titles was probably a very inexpensive way to introduce the new format to dealers, and since the sample record was never meant to be sold for home use, the actual musical content was of little importance. The subdued dynamic range of the originals probably made it easier to make the first successful long-play dubbing sessions.
Good luck with any further research!
Bob

[ImperialGuardsman]

It's still an issue. Steve Medved convinced them to replace two defective ones of mine. They came in, I installed them, played a few sides with no issue, then....you guessed it LINES! These are now the ninth and tenth respective defective styli I've had from them. I'm out a grand.

I'm still waiting for somebody to make something of quality as now I refuse to play any of my DD machines and electrical reproduction is my only safe choice.

The odd thing is, they make perfect replacements for the Diamond series of cylinder reproducers that have no problems at all>

Sean

Steve has been in contact with another company, Bruce Diamonds or some such. He has a couple of my weight assemblies and it seems that the Bruce diamonds are almost ready. Hopefully, they will be better. I've had a few diamond failures myself.

[pughphonos]

Hi "Imp" -- I'm aware of the challenges involved in finding workable diamonds for the Edison disc reproducers. My Long Play reproducer is still being worked on by the Victrola Repair Service; they are very conscientious. One can't fault most repair shops--they can only use what's available.

Ralph