The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

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 Post subject: Re: Raw Audio vs Cleaned Audio
PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2019 2:35 pm 
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Victor IV
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music is time travel and strings moments in time together like nothing else I know -- Kathleen Lane
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To me the sound on a period phonograph is great. But, if you are going to transfer the record to digital the hiss and crackle are amplified far beyond what you might hear on an acoustic machine with playback. Removing things like the RIAA curve equalization and removing crackle and pops makes the transfers fun and listenable on modern playback equipment.

But, I think if someone else like the original noisy sound that is great. We all like different things. When the tools are used lightly and properly the source music is not lost. It can actually sound much better in many cases especially with electrically recorded 78 records.
-- Dan

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 Post subject: Re: Raw Audio vs Cleaned Audio
PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2019 3:14 pm 
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VTLA
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bart1927 wrote:
alang wrote:
Personally, I prefer the recordings to sound close to being played on an acoustic machine, so I don't use any equalization etc. I only use light click removal if scratches or hairline cracks etc are present. On clean records I don't use any electronic cleanup. But I also only record for my own listening pleasure to listen to while driving, so I don't have to worry about other opinions. ;)

Andreas


When playing 78's on modern electric equipment, you are always using equalization, whether you want it or not. There's the RIAA curve, as provided by your modern phono-preamp, and there's the sonic characteristics of your cartridge and stylus.


I bypass any type of preamp, going straight into the mic entry on my sound card. I tried it all, with preamp with and without RIAA, without preamp and adding equalization curves in Audacity, and it all sounds overwhelmingly "modern" to me. I agree, even my way is not exactly what an acoustic machine would sound like, that's why I said "close to".

Andreas


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 Post subject: Re: Raw Audio vs Cleaned Audio
PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2019 3:48 pm 
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Victor III
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Keep'em well oiled
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Oops repeated post, sorry
Inigo


Last edited by Inigo on Fri Nov 22, 2019 5:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Raw Audio vs Cleaned Audio
PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2019 3:48 pm 
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Victor III
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Keep'em well oiled
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I've also done transfers, using a thick stylus on a ceramic cartridge, kind of intrinsic eq which is kind both to acoustic and electric 78s, and make them good to listen to. I also use the direct mic connection. Then I use Goldwave software. But don't add any filters. I only use the volume balancing features, making the two channels equivalent, removing the dc bias, and the maximise feature. Then look for the peak, usually a high pop. I remove this by hand, editing the wave. Then maximise again, look for the next peak, and so on. Eventually you arrive to the point where the maximum is actual music. Starting from there I look after other isolated peaks, and examining if they are music or local pops or clicks, which I also edit manually. I do that until the whole file has the major clicks removed. I do no more. No noise reduction nor auto declicking features. It's time consuming, but if the record is good, you achieve very good results.
Inigo


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 Post subject: Re: Raw Audio vs Cleaned Audio
PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2019 3:58 pm 
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Victor II
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alang wrote:
bart1927 wrote:
alang wrote:
Personally, I prefer the recordings to sound close to being played on an acoustic machine, so I don't use any equalization etc. I only use light click removal if scratches or hairline cracks etc are present. On clean records I don't use any electronic cleanup. But I also only record for my own listening pleasure to listen to while driving, so I don't have to worry about other opinions. ;)

Andreas


When playing 78's on modern electric equipment, you are always using equalization, whether you want it or not. There's the RIAA curve, as provided by your modern phono-preamp, and there's the sonic characteristics of your cartridge and stylus.


I bypass any type of preamp, going straight into the mic entry on my sound card. I tried it all, with preamp with and without RIAA, without preamp and adding equalization curves in Audacity, and it all sounds overwhelmingly "modern" to me. I agree, even my way is not exactly what an acoustic machine would sound like, that's why I said "close to".

Andreas


Even when you bypass the preamp the record isn't equalized flat. That's caused by the rising frequency response of the magnetic cartridge, so the music will have very little bass and far too much treble. So if the end result is plagued by an overwhelming amount of hiss, that's probably why.

When playing my records on modern equipment I always use my KAB Souvenir VSP. It has several equalisation settings to choose from and, while not necessarily historically accurate, I find the output very pleasing to listen to.


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 Post subject: Re: Raw Audio vs Cleaned Audio
PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2019 5:09 pm 
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Victor III
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Keep'em well oiled
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Location: Madrid, Spain
That's the trick. I believe that the natural eq of a ceramic cart is much better, it preserves the bass while eating some of the high treble end. Not so sensitive as the magnetic carts but does a good job and the results are audibly pleasant.
Inigo


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 Post subject: Re: Raw Audio vs Cleaned Audio
PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2019 5:14 pm 
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Victor I
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So many audio formats, so little listening time!
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2019 4:49 pm
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bart1927 wrote:

So, as far as I'm concerned, there's nothing wrong with a little noise reduction, as long as you don't exaggerate it.



Yes I agree fully - trouble is so many transfers out there so obviously have the de-noise setting set way up high and in this instance less really is more. If you can notice the effects of the de-noise then it's too much.
I am interested in all forms of audio media including: gramophones, phonographs, wire recorders, the tefifon, reel to reel tapes, radiograms and radios.


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 Post subject: Re: Raw Audio vs Cleaned Audio
PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 12:59 am 
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Victor IV
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A Hobbyist Specializing in Sales and Repair of Spring Motor Phonographs
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 11:43 am
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The two recordings here were digitized using an excellent GE VR II cartridge on an electric turntable plugged directly into the MIC input on the computer soundcard. Not exactly a talking machine, but I have yet to figure out how to get a decent digital recording from a talking machine...
Cliff's Vintage Music Shoppe, Castle Rock, WA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIz_IpaVrW8


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 Post subject: Re: Raw Audio vs Cleaned Audio
PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 1:30 am 
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Victor V
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:55 am
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Location: Eugene/ Springfield Oregon USA
CDBPDX wrote:
The two recordings here were digitized using an excellent GE VR II cartridge on an electric turntable plugged directly into the MIC input on the computer soundcard. Not exactly a talking machine, but I have yet to figure out how to get a decent digital recording from a talking machine...


Cliff- do you have a stereo/ mono switch anywhere in your system? I've found that stereo seems to give two channels of noise to a center channel of signal.
"He who dies with the most shellac wins"- some nutty record geek


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 Post subject: Re: Raw Audio vs Cleaned Audio
PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 9:43 am 
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Victor O
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:14 pm
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Location: Plainfield, NJ
Of course, you can use a flat preamp to avoid RIAA or use software or something like the Rek-O-Kut re-equalizer to remove or adjust the equalization curve. I usually use acoustic equipment but I do have the Rek-O-Kut in my audio setup to adjust equalization when I play records on my modern equipment or transfer to other formats.

Bill


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