5" Concert Cylinder With Very Odd Whistling Intro

[JerryVan]

I just purchased a Columbia 5" concert cylinder at an auction. Beautiful condition with no mold. I set the stylus right at the beginning and for 4 or 5 seconds, before the "announcement", there is very clearly whistling. No tune that I can make out but definetly musical. The record is then announced in the usual manner and all is normal. Has anyone ever come across this before? It's kind of fun. At first I thought someone home recorded the whistling before the announcement but upon close inspection, there is no evidence of any "additional" or non-original groove preceding the "factory" recorded groove.

By the way, it's Gilmore's Band doing "Selections From the Quartermaster".

[Wolfe]

Assuming it's whistling sound rather than someone whisting some kind of tune. It's probably either the cutting stylus scraping the wax, or perhaps they were using some kind of whistle to indicate commencement of recording, same as the 'red light' of yore, or the tapping sound you can hear on some early Victor discs. And maybe the whistle wasn't intended to be recorded, but someone dropped the cutter head a little too early.

[transformingArt]

As Wolfe had said, there are two possibilities; either it is not actually a whistle but sounds like a whistle, or the recording engineer started too early.

However, since you said it is a 5-inch Concert Cylinder, I believe that whistling sound is not a whistle at all, but a typical noise created by early Pantographic devices. I have heard number of examples like that, including my Bettini cylinder. For some unknown reason (maybe because of costs), most of the concert cylinders were pantographed from the original master recording even after the moulding technique was popularized after 1902.

Can you post the clip of the recording on here? That would help.

[Starkton]

However, since you said it is a 5-inch Concert Cylinder, I believe that whistling sound is not a whistle at all, but a typical noise created by early Pantographic devices. I have heard number of examples like that, including my Bettini cylinder.

Do I understand you right, you have a Bettini Concert Cylinder?! Which one?

For some unknown reason (maybe because of costs), most of the concert cylinders were pantographed from the original master recording even after the moulding technique was popularized after 1902.

The reason was shrinkage from the matrix, giving rise to warping of the finished cylinder. Just when these difficulties were overcome, it became obvious that moulded high speed records were just as loud as concert cylinders.
In 1903, White, the European manager of the National Phonograph Co. said in an interview that "there is no demand worth mentioning for a gold-moulded concert." Therefore, the project to introduce "gold moulded grand records" was cancelled.

Can you post the clip of the recording on here? That would help.

Yes indeed.

[JerryVan]

The sound is definetly whistling, done by a human, in a musical way. It's something like the mindless "tra-la-la" sort of whistling one might do to pass time. It's not whistling as if someone blew a whistle to signal the band to commence, as someone suggested. It's also not a mechanical or vibrational sound created by the recording apparatus itself.

Wolfe's suggestion that, "...someone dropped the cutter head a little too early", is an interesting thought.

Unfortunatly, I don't have the means to record it and link it back to the forum.

[transformingArt]

Do I understand you right, you have a Bettini Concert Cylinder?! Which one?

Oh, you misunderstood me - it's not a Bettini Concert Cylinder but an ordinary-sized one. I got this from a Korean collector. I have only heard that thing once, played with a Edison Home model (without the Bettini attachments - I wonder if I damaged it).

The recording is the finale of Verdi's 'Aida', sung by Signora Morali (don't know who she is - any ideas?) & Dante del Papa. The recording was pretty worn out, but the performance was fine and the recording quality was kinda good for a recording from 1890s.

Any more information about the recording? I actually have no discographical information about Bettini cylinders.

I have some other interesting cylinders (actually, there are 10 cylinders in my collection in total, but some of them are quite interesting.), including 1903 Pathé-AICC cylinder of Enrico Caruso, and even a recording of Bennett Cerf (of "What's My Line?" fame) on Ediphone Dictation cylinder. I wonder if these would interest you much.

[Starkton]

The recording is the finale of Verdi's 'Aida', sung by Signora Morali (don't know who she is - any ideas?) & Dante del Papa.

Any more information about the recording? I actually have no discographical information about Bettini cylinders.

Most artists in Bettini's catalogue are only 2nd and 3rd class. His cylinders are certainly not sought after for solely artistical reasons.

Signora Morali is a local talent who isn't even mentioned in the catalogue. Your cylinder is listed as no. 10 ("Aida - 4th act") in the category "Soprano and Tenor." Standard price for duos in the September 1900 catalogue was 5 Francs. For comparison, a Berliner 7" disc was 3 Fr. 50.

I wouldn't use a Model C reproducer on a brown wax cylinder.

a Blue Amberol copy of Thomas Edison's 1888 recording (the Famous "Mr. Blaine" cylinder) made around 1920

Are you sure it is no modern reproduction? Does it bear a number?

[transformingArt]

Are you sure it is no modern reproduction? Does it bear a number?

[Energ15]

I haven't heard of the whistling sound at the beginning of the record but know of something similar. I have an Edison Gold Moulded cylinder record with the title "Dan, Dan, Danuell". This record is very odd because at the end of the recorded song, there is an extra set of small grooves separated from the song recording itself. If you wait to pick up the reproducer at the end, it sound like some one talking but, in the same voice as the singer of the song. I can't make out what it said so I just figured it was a recording error.

-Energ15