The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

I have a beautiful Odeon album with La Verbena de la Paloma Spanish well known zarzuela, kind of operetta. It always sounded too slow to me. Until I saw later repressings where some kind soul at the factory ordered to write the actual speeds on the labels... The final chorus and wrap-up speech go at 88rpm! No strange it sounded too low to me at 78!
In the other hand, I've been told to play Bing Crosby Deccas at 78... But I've found many of them to sound much better at speeds as 81rpm!
Since a long time ago I decided not to trust completely any source talking about speeds. I use them as orientations, but in the end I always play a bit with the speed control trying to get a natural sound, and I've found many many surprises. Even records I didn't like, until I get them slower, or faster than 78, just to discover a beautiful rendition....

I wonder if some of the very slow early sides recorded in Europe were as a result of engineers who continued to hold to more or less Berliner's speed standards from the 1890s?

Here's one side of a mid-teens Victor batwing pressed directly from a 1907 matrix recorded in Vienna. It sounded right played back around 68.88 rpm, which is what you'll hear here. I was told I got this correct, in Bb.

https://app.box.com/shared/paitazuud8

And for your bemusment, here's a few seconds of how it sounds played back at 78.26.... https://app.box.com/shared/smltg6hi3l

I believe the Odeon company was the first to make a habit of showing the playing speed on discs, beginning in about 1907. On examples I have seen the speeds range from 74 to 82 r.p.m.

Oliver Mundy.

I've also found other hmv acoustics (some Berlin matrixes studied last week) of orchestral works playing at other speeds than 78.
For records prior to 1918 I usually look in Brian Rust's HMV records of the WW1, where he gives playing speeds, and also some early hmv and Victor catalogues. But I use these data only as orientation, for many times I have to trust in my ear, or check with the piano, or other recorded sources. Many records, even down to the forties, are recorded at strange speeds. Just last Monday I was playing a 1945 Spanish Odeon which I found to sound right near 82rpm!

Viva-Tonal wrote:I wonder if some of the very slow early sides recorded in Europe were as a result of engineers who continued to hold to more or less Berliner's speed standards from the 1890s?

Here's one side of a mid-teens Victor batwing pressed directly from a 1907 matrix recorded in Vienna. It sounded right played back around 68.88 rpm, which is what you'll hear here. I was told I got this correct, in Bb.

https://app.box.com/shared/paitazuud8

And for your bemusment, here's a few seconds of how it sounds played back at 78.26.... https://app.box.com/shared/smltg6hi3l

The first example does indeed test out to Bb, albeit about 20 cents sharp, at A = 440Hz. The second playback is a whole tone higher, i.e., in C +20 cents, and (subjectively) sounds "wrong" to me.

I'd go with no. 1.