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 Post subject: Berliner record question
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 3:30 pm 
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Victor III
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Can Berliner records be played with a metal needle on, say a 1920's HMV gramophone, like most other 78's ?
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 Post subject: Re: Berliner record question
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:15 pm 
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Victor Monarch
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Of course they can, but most sound awful...
"The phonograph† is not of any commercial value."
Thomas Alva Edison - Comment to his assistant, Samuel Insull.

"No one needs a Victrola XX, a Perfected Graphophone Type G, or whatever you call those noisy things."
My Wife


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 Post subject: Re: Berliner record question
PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2020 2:38 am 
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Victor III
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Curt A wrote:
Of course they can, but most sound awful...



Thank you Curt. That made me smile, as you also answered the question I should have asked !

I thought Berliners might have very poor sound quality and now I know !
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 Post subject: Re: Berliner record question
PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2020 2:18 pm 
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Victor V
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Some Berliners play correctly at 60 something rpm. I don't know if the speed governer on the HMV can be set that low, or if it really matters to you.


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 Post subject: Re: Berliner record question
PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2020 2:48 pm 
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Victor III
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Wolfe wrote:
Some Berliners play correctly at 60 something rpm. I don't know if the speed governer on the HMV can be set that low, or if it really matters to you.


Interesting. Thank you Wolfe, I didn't know that.
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We're setting off with soft explosion


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 Post subject: Re: Berliner record question
PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2020 5:09 pm 
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Victor VI
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 3:08 pm
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Location: Harrison Township, MI
I don't have that many Berliners to try out, but I have played them on my Orthophonic Credenza and have actually been very surprised at how good they sound. Yes, they're still somewhat crude, but the ones I played seemed to have fairly nice bass and played far better than expected.


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 Post subject: Re: Berliner record question
PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2020 7:04 pm 
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Victor Monarch
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Needle Tins are Addictive
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As the old saying goes: "Hearing is in the ear of the listener..." :? :lol: or something like that.
"The phonograph† is not of any commercial value."
Thomas Alva Edison - Comment to his assistant, Samuel Insull.

"No one needs a Victrola XX, a Perfected Graphophone Type G, or whatever you call those noisy things."
My Wife


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 Post subject: Re: Berliner record question
PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 4:06 am 
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Victor II
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2017 5:52 am
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Location: Redruth, Cornwall, U.K.
The speed ranges of spring-driven motors vary greatly. My H.M.V. 101 portable will not go lower than 73 r.p.m. and is therefore unsuitable for quite a few early records (not only Berliners). The No. 32 motor used in (for example) the Model 109 table machine is much more flexible. I currently use a home-made machine with a Garrard 30 motor which ranges from 53 to 95 r.p.m.

Berliners made with the original 'etched zinc' technique tend to sound shallow and scratchy as well as being much less distinct than the best contemporary cylinders. The wax masters introduced by Eldridge Johnson in 1900 give a much warmer tone; apart from their rather rough surfaces, these can sound as good as recordings of fifteen or twenty years later. My web-page http://www.horologia.me.uk/discs.html begins with two specimens of the earlier method (1896 and 1898) followed by two British wax-cut examples from 1900 and 1901; the latter, a duet for flute and clarinet, astonishes me every time I hear it.

Oliver Mundy.


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 Post subject: Re: Berliner record question
PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 2:12 pm 
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Victor V
Joined: Mon May 13, 2013 2:04 pm
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Berliners when deep cleaned and played on modern equipment with variable speed with a diamond stylus and the appropriate speed can sound amazing as the stylus can sit at the groove bottom where there may be little or no needle wear , this is also true of any 78


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 Post subject: Re: Berliner record question
PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 2:23 pm 
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Victor V
Joined: Mon May 13, 2013 2:04 pm
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Robert Parker used to play records on the BBC , he used to buy records from us at Portobello Market every Saturday when he was in London , he told me his procedure for recording was this , 1) deep clean the record 2) coat the record in wax polish 3) Play the record 6 times on a windup gramophone 4) The record is then suitable to play on air with an electric pick up , the result a perfect noiseless rendition ! BUT the prep takes a good half an hour , he was a genius :D

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Pa ... d_engineer)

This link keeps breaking for some reason but can be followed


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