Last Sunday, to mark the season, I played through the whole of the 1941 set of Bach's St. Matthew Passion recorded in Leipzig in 1941 with Gunther Ramin conducting (H.M.V. DB6516–6531). I used my H.M.V. 130 table machine, which registered its protest at this unusual workload by putting the auto-brake out of action, so that I had to keep an old toothbrush handy to wedge the turntable at the end of each side. I have had this set for about forty years but can only remember playing it right through once before. It is a very deeply-felt performance, with the veteran tenor Karl Erb as the Evangelist, a part in which he had specialised for thirty years or more; Gerhard Hüsch is Christ and Tiana Lemnitz is the soprano soloist – some of you may know these two from Sir Thomas Beecham's 1937 Magic Flute. The work is severely cut, with fourteen numbers out of 78 omitted and some others shorn of repeats and orchestral passages, and I know that some modern critics find Ramin's tempi intolerably slow at times; but to me the sheer beauty of the singing, the dignity and sincerity of the interpretation and the finely-shaped phrasing and dynamics outweigh all the disadvantages, including the need to change the side thirty times and to give the crank more than six hundred turns.
Does anyone else, I wonder, ever play multiple-disc classical sets on acoustic machines?
Oliver Mundy.
Bach's 'St. Matthew Passion' on 78s
-
- Victor II
- Posts: 429
- Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2017 5:52 am
- Location: Redruth, Cornwall, U.K.
-
- Victor Monarch Special
- Posts: 5225
- Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:21 pm
- Personal Text: An analogue relic trapped in a digital world.
- Location: The Somerset Levels, UK.
Re: Bach's 'St. Matthew Passion' on 78s
Never, not even on my electrically motored Expert Minor. I got rid of my multiple 78rpm disc sets long ago.
If I wanted to hear Karl Erb in the St. Matthew Passion I would buy this CD :
If I wanted to hear Karl Erb in the St. Matthew Passion I would buy this CD :
- Attachments
-
- s-l500.jpg (44.73 KiB) Viewed 633 times
- gramophone-georg
- Victor VI
- Posts: 3992
- Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:55 pm
- Personal Text: Northwest Of Normal
- Location: Eugene/ Springfield Oregon USA
Re: Bach's 'St. Matthew Passion' on 78s
All the time.
I will do it even more if I ever get the time to go through my Capehart flipover changer, but the Cape is not acoustic. My acoustic machines of choice for this are the HMV no 32, or my Victrola 10-50 or 10-35 changers with orthophonic sound boxes/ horns.
I will do it even more if I ever get the time to go through my Capehart flipover changer, but the Cape is not acoustic. My acoustic machines of choice for this are the HMV no 32, or my Victrola 10-50 or 10-35 changers with orthophonic sound boxes/ horns.
"He who dies with the most shellac wins"- some nutty record geek
I got PTSD from Peter F's avatar
I got PTSD from Peter F's avatar
- BassetHoundTrio
- Victor I
- Posts: 115
- Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2017 11:07 am
- Location: Chicago, IL
- Contact:
Re: Bach's 'St. Matthew Passion' on 78s
As I only have acoustic machines, the answer is a resounding yes! But I don't have any sets nearly that mammoth (envious, I am) but I recently enjoyed the entire set of Verdi Requiem on 78s.
- gramophone-georg
- Victor VI
- Posts: 3992
- Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:55 pm
- Personal Text: Northwest Of Normal
- Location: Eugene/ Springfield Oregon USA
Re: Bach's 'St. Matthew Passion' on 78s
INFIDEL!!epigramophone wrote: ↑Thu Apr 21, 2022 1:57 pm Never, not even on my electrically motored Expert Minor. I got rid of my multiple 78rpm disc sets long ago.
If I wanted to hear Karl Erb in the St. Matthew Passion I would buy this CD :
"He who dies with the most shellac wins"- some nutty record geek
I got PTSD from Peter F's avatar
I got PTSD from Peter F's avatar
- Roaring20s
- Victor V
- Posts: 2566
- Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:55 am
- Personal Text: Those who were seen dancing were thought insane by those who could not hear the music. Nietzsche
- Location: Tucson, AZ
Re: Bach's 'St. Matthew Passion' on 78s
Yes!Menophanes wrote: ↑Thu Apr 21, 2022 11:41 am Does anyone else, I wonder, ever play multiple-disc classical sets on acoustic machines? - Oliver Mundy.
However, classical sets are kept to this bare minimum ...
Host's "The Planets"
Vivaldi's "The Four Seasons"
Beethoven's "Symphony No. 5"
Mozart's "Concerto No. 18"
James.
-
- Victor II
- Posts: 417
- Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:14 pm
- Location: Plainfield, NJ
Re: Bach's 'St. Matthew Passion' on 78s
Definitely. Mostly operas and G&S, but some symphonic or solo instrumental works or song cycles.Menophanes wrote: ↑Thu Apr 21, 2022 11:41 am Last Sunday, to mark the season, I played through the whole of the 1941 set of Bach's St. Matthew Passion recorded in Leipzig in 1941 with Gunther Ramin conducting (H.M.V. DB6516–6531). I used my H.M.V. 130 table machine, which registered its protest at this unusual workload by putting the auto-brake out of action, so that I had to keep an old toothbrush handy to wedge the turntable at the end of each side. I have had this set for about forty years but can only remember playing it right through once before. It is a very deeply-felt performance, with the veteran tenor Karl Erb as the Evangelist, a part in which he had specialised for thirty years or more; Gerhard Hüsch is Christ and Tiana Lemnitz is the soprano soloist – some of you may know these two from Sir Thomas Beecham's 1937 Magic Flute. The work is severely cut, with fourteen numbers out of 78 omitted and some others shorn of repeats and orchestral passages, and I know that some modern critics find Ramin's tempi intolerably slow at times; but to me the sheer beauty of the singing, the dignity and sincerity of the interpretation and the finely-shaped phrasing and dynamics outweigh all the disadvantages, including the need to change the side thirty times and to give the crank more than six hundred turns.
Does anyone else, I wonder, ever play multiple-disc classical sets on acoustic machines?
Oliver Mundy.
Bill
-
- Victor Monarch Special
- Posts: 5225
- Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:21 pm
- Personal Text: An analogue relic trapped in a digital world.
- Location: The Somerset Levels, UK.
Re: Bach's 'St. Matthew Passion' on 78s
The composers of works such as the St.Matthew Passion intended them to be heard uninterrupted. I have been collecting machines and records for over 60 years, but I am not blind to the merits of the CD.gramophone-georg wrote: ↑Thu Apr 21, 2022 5:49 pmINFIDEL!!epigramophone wrote: ↑Thu Apr 21, 2022 1:57 pm Never, not even on my electrically motored Expert Minor. I got rid of my multiple 78rpm disc sets long ago.
If I wanted to hear Karl Erb in the St. Matthew Passion I would buy this CD :
- drh
- Victor IV
- Posts: 1218
- Joined: Tue May 27, 2014 12:24 pm
- Personal Text: A Pathé record...with care will live to speak to your grandchildren when they are as old as you are
- Location: Silver Spring, MD
Re: Bach's 'St. Matthew Passion' on 78s
I suppose it's a matter of whose perspective you're trying to recreate--the composer's of 250-odd years ago (or whatever), or the record listener's of 75-100 years ago? If you want to recreate the latter, then playing with breaks is the way to go, unless, of course, you delve into Edison long plays or Victor program transcriptions. For me, I did play classical sets (of which I have many) on acoustic machines with breaks years ago, but more recently I've gone exclusively to playing them on a relatively modern turntable with custom-sized styli, copying to the computer as I go, then editing out the breaks to make a continuous performance and saving the resultant file. Then, barring special circumstances, that's how I play the music going forward. These days, although I enjoy giving others the occasional "old time" spin, the only records I consistently play on acoustic machines are my vertical cuts, the Pathés (and their imitators) and Edisons.epigramophone wrote: ↑Fri Apr 22, 2022 4:23 amThe composers of works such as the St.Matthew Passion intended them to be heard uninterrupted. I have been collecting machines and records for over 60 years, but I am not blind to the merits of the CD.gramophone-georg wrote: ↑Thu Apr 21, 2022 5:49 pmINFIDEL!!epigramophone wrote: ↑Thu Apr 21, 2022 1:57 pm Never, not even on my electrically motored Expert Minor. I got rid of my multiple 78rpm disc sets long ago.
If I wanted to hear Karl Erb in the St. Matthew Passion I would buy this CD :
If I were starting over, I'd probably look at CD transfers or streaming. When I started out, however, commercial transfers were consistently dreadful, and so a bias toward owning the originals was born. Too late now to take a different road.
- Marco Gilardetti
- Victor IV
- Posts: 1398
- Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2011 3:19 am
- Personal Text: F. Depero, "Grammofono", 1923.
- Location: Italy
- Contact:
Re: Bach's 'St. Matthew Passion' on 78s
I also find amusing to play entire sets when I can. At this point in time, I perceive going through an entire long musical piece without incidents, mistakes or interruptions, quite like an art performance.