7 inch etched Universal Talking Machine record

[vintagetenor]

Yes, drh, great explanation of how a matrix could be issued with different catalog numbers over the years. The same is true of popular recordings retaining their matrices when issued on different labels, each using their own catalog numbers. There are other examples, as well.

Actually, I was thinking in terms of single-sided records at the time of my response. Just prior to responding, I had been playing several Little Wonders and had temporarily forgotten all about double-faced records. Talk about being too immersed in a hobby!.

[drh]

...Talk about being too immersed in a hobby!.

Painfully easy to do. (Says the guy who spent a good part of the afternoon play-testing and weeding out duplicate copies of Caruso singing "Una Furtiva Lagrima." )

Thanks for the kind words, by the way!

[AllenKoe]

Hi,

Thanks for showing the reverse side, with its indented "Valiquet" notch. This is an important detail.

Over the years, there have been those who thought that some 'Universal' or 'Zonophone' 7" disc records appeared on the market in 1899. It may have been too-optimistic thinking, or over-trusting the masthead dates on the Phonoscope trade magazine. I think I even saw a modern explanation that these records "anticipated" the market, and were made & "sold" months before the intended machines (w/ the vertical spring pin) were ready. BUT no actual Zonophone machines were sold in 1899, and so the 7" discs (copied from Berliner), with the drilled-out hole added, cannot date from 1899. The record itself may appear to be "from 1899" (based on disc/face title/artist info), but the "added hole" tells the real story - those 'adjusted' discs were "created" in 1900.

The 'Stars and Stripes Forever' was a popular title for several companies, the rarest of which was on Berliner 0228 (early 1900). Despite the fact that it was emblazoned on the front cover of Berliner's last US catalog, it has never been found.

By 1898, the Berliner Gramophone Co was already being plagued by copy-cats and counterfeiters. Some of them are even sought-after collectibles today.
In 1900, Emile Berliner would drive Frank Seaman crazy by putting the "substitutes" in his shop window and showing them off to his loyal customers and advertising them [negatively] as well.

Allen

[Governor Flyball]

A matrix number is assigned to a recording when it is made. Different takes of the same piece by the same artist are usually denoted by a suffix (-A,-B, etc.) added to the this number.

The catalog number (record number) is assigned to a recording to be issued that will usually appear on the record label. (I say "usually" but at the moment I can't think of an example to the contrary.) That is the number that we use to identify a particular disc. In this case, Zonophone (Universal) 5117.

I suppose a succinct way to say is that the matrix numbers keep track of the recordings made and the catalog numbers keep track of the recordings issued.

By the way, congratulations on that acquisition!

Or another way of putting it would be that the matrix number is how the record company keeps track of the parts from which it makes records; the catalogue number is how the record company organizes its records into series enabling it to set prices and dealers to keep track of their inventory and fill customer orders.

It wasn't until 1902, that Eldridge Johnson perfected the multiple daughter sub masters from the original master. 1903 was when Victor introduced the separate matrix number from the catalog number.

Pre 1903, cataloging records was more haphazard. The masters could not yet be easily duplicated and rapidly wore out after about 700 pressings. This dictated multiple new studio records. You will find pre 1903, the same song by the same performer in a slightly different performance. I have a 1902 copy of SH Dudley's "Whistling Bowery Boy" and on on the internet I must have come across at least four other versions slightly different from mine, all recorded about the same time!

[fmblizz]

Is it know how many record (titles) were produced under the Universal Talking Machine Co. and at what point did they switch over to the Zonophone Shield label etched onto the records?

DAHR list record #5117 as a Zonophone dating it prior to October 1900 being performed by the Zonophone Band even though the disc I have list it as being performed by the Hager's Band. Is it possible that they would be one of the same???

Blizz

[Governor Flyball]

Is it know how many record (titles) were produced under the Universal Talking Machine Co. and at what point did they switch over to the Zonophone Shield label etched onto the records?

DAHR list record #5117 as a Zonophone dating it prior to October 1900 being performed by the Zonophone Band even though the disc I have list it as being performed by the Hager's Band. Is it possible that they would be one of the same???

Blizz

In those early days, they reused the same catalog number for re-recordings. My guess is that the Hagers Orchestra is post 1900 and Zonophone Orchestra pre 1900 because remember the stamper wore out after a few hundred pressings and they were from the same master. Certainly a popular tune would create a need to re record it multiple times.

[AllenKoe]

Blizz

"My guess is that the Hagers Orchestra is post 1900 and Zonophone Orchestra pre-1900 because, remember, the stamper wore out after a few hundred pressings"

Hi,

I am very curious, if I have quoted the previous message correctly, as to the phrase "Zonophone Orchestra pre-1900" because there is really NO evidence that ANY Zonophone records (marked as "Zonophone") were ever issued in 1899. Does a picture of such a beast exist? Ray W. was exceedingly doubtful...

Can you clarify?

Much appreciated.

Allen