Diamond Disc vs Edison Needle Cut sound quality controversy

[Phototone]

Yet at least the two recordings Victor made in the Trinity studio on 28 October 1925 released on blue label 45519 have considerable 60 Hz hum on them!

One can get that effect by running a mike cable next to a cable carrying AC power at 60hz. Goodness knows I've had to fight that battle a number of times in the past. It would be interesting to know what the Trinity sessions actually used.

regards,
Martin

If you have ever looked at vintage photographs of microphones being used for things like radio broadcasts, and public address, you can see that the microphones were not connected with shielded cable. Nor were the horseshoe magnet pickups used in early electric gramophones and radio/gramophone combinations. The limited bass response of early speakers would limit the hum you might pick up. Of course, if you had no AC in your building (such as probably Edison did..only using "his" DC, instead of Tesla's "AC", then there would be no hum to pick up.

[Victrolacollector]

In my life, I have only had a couple of these "Needle types" to listen to and compare. My conclusion is that these Edison "Needle Cut" records would have to be in comparable condition to a electric Diamond Disc. The "Needle Cut" recordings seem to found in average to poor condition. By the way...Who pressed Edison Needle Cut records? They are often crumbly with much of the better surface being gone.

I find that the bass seems greater with the needle cut than the electric Diamond Disc, but the surface noise is greater on the Needle Cut.

Alot of it comes down to playing them on proper equipment, I assume the Electrics were sold to be used on the portable p-1 and p-2 Edison phonographs, or the electric "C" series electric machines. I think a fair test would be using a Edisonic reproducer of the same DD in compared to an electric.

One of the best electrics I have heard is "Susianna" which was put up by Rob at Edisonia on the you tube website.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozkOSLZn05Q

[JerryVan]

I know this is not helpful, but as an observation, this is like a discussion to determine who is the fastest turtle.

[Dave D]

I know this is not helpful, but as an observation, this is like a discussion to determine who is the fastest turtle.

I hope that this is helpful:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDQ5PIT7lM4

The world's fastest turtle!
Dave D

[Victrolacollector]

It is a very interesting but I think one of those opinionated areas, what sounds good to one may not sound as good to the other. If good ole Edison would have got with the times, maybe we could have seen Benny Goodman, Paul Whiteman, Helen Kane and so many others on the Edison label. What I find to be odd was I believe Edison finally dropped the capability of playing Diamond Discs on his later electric machines, it was like he just abandoned it all together.

[JerryVan]

I know this is not helpful, but as an observation, this is like a discussion to determine who is the fastest turtle.

I hope that this is helpful:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDQ5PIT7lM4

The world's fastest turtle!
Dave D

Oh, yes Dave, that is very helpful! Thanks! This forum is great.

[barnettrp21122]

What I find to be odd was I believe Edison finally dropped the capability of playing Diamond Discs on his later electric machines, it was like he just abandoned it all together.

The public had abandoned the Diamond Disc first, judging by the production numbers of the final couple years!
Bob

[Marc Hildebrant]

I know that this is an old note, but I just have to jump in.

On the Diamond Cut web site, I submitted a song "Button Up Your Overcoat" on which I had one channel as the song from a Needle Type Recording and the other track from a Diamond Disc Electric recorded.

The tests that I did showed that the needle type had better low end.

By the way, I felt that there were two microphones and one recording...early Stereo.

Marc

[coyote]

Yes, bringing up this old thread again.

Marc, I assume these were the same takes? I'm currently in the process of transferring the four titles I have on both formats, and none seem to be the same take, even when both the Needle Type and DD are take "B," for example, they seem NOT to be the same take. They will never synch up all the way through to be able to put one type on each channel unless the speed of one is varied up and down throughout.

I am amazed at the consistency of the takes, even when voices are present. One really has to listen side-by-side to catch one or two subtle differences.

Speed variances also seem to happen. The one case in point in my small sample size is N-14021 and 52573. When the Needle Type is played at 78.8, Murray and Van Brunt sound way too fast. 77 is about right to my ear. However, the DD is still right around 80, maybe also a bit less, but nowhere near 78.8.

This Diamond Disc is matrices 19165 and 19166, so the same month (Feb, 1929) as the Copeland/Sherman (Collector's Guide to Edison Records) assertion of DD speeds being reduced to 78.8, matching the Needle Type speed, at DD matrix 19025. Interesting stuff. I'll post some YouTube videos comparing the two when I have a chance to return to playing around with these.

[Wolfe]

Here...

https://adp.library.ucsb.edu/index.php/ ... ham_Bertha

It says "recorded simultaneously as lateral Needle Type"

But this sounds like a different take altogether, and Vaughn DeLeath's voice sounds louder (mic gain) in relation to the orchestra than the NT. "B" take is identified as B-/-2 on the NT disc.