Motor repair advice please

[poodling around]

Having mastered replacing and repairing springs I now have a new problem.

With reference to the photograph below:

Essentially, the part numbered '1' moves up and down a little. When it is down (Ie. when the turntable is attached) it does not engage the cog which drives the worm gear (I think it is called) properly so the governor weights do not turn. The effect is that the motor system 'jams'.

I wonder:

Are there ever two ball bearings in the number 2 area ? I have only one in there so maybe I have lost one ?

What does this screw do (Number 3) ? I thought it might move the worm gear up and down but when turned it seems to do nothing ?

Am I missing a washer which should go under the top plate (Number 4) to push Number 1 up a bit ? (The photo shows the motor up-side down).

The top and bottom plates seem to be bolted on properly.


Thank you very much for any help / advice you can give.

[soundgen]

Never 2 ball bearings in 2 , maybe a larger bearing is needed ? Screw 3 locks the governor bearing , bearing plate seems a long way from the motor plate , what is the make of the motor ?

[poodling around]

Never 2 ball bearings in 2 , maybe a larger bearing is needed ? Screw 3 locks the governor bearing , bearing plate seems a long way from the motor plate , what is the make of the motor ?

Oh, thank you very much indeed soundgen.

Only one ball bearing. Okay. Good.

Why would a larger bearing be required though I wonder ? Would it have simply started to wear away maybe with years of use ?

Oh, there is another ball bearing for the governor. That makes complete sense now you have said it.

I see what you mean about the bearing plate. It won't screw in any more though.

The motor is un-named - I think it may be German ?

[Inigo]

Or it is a very rare motor, or the bearing plate should go completely in contact against the motor plate. Could it be that the two screws are not the correct ones? All European motors I've seen have the bearing plate completely screwed down to the motor plate...

[gramophoneshane]

All European motors I've seen have the bearing plate completely screwed down to the motor plate...

Completely agree.
Every motor I've worked on had that bearing plate screwed down flush with the motor plate, it's never been raised as shown in the photo.
Perhaps the ball bearing thats in there is too big and bearing plate/cap wasn't screwed down to compensate?

[soundgen]

The fibre spindle gear looks trashed , which is probably why it locks up , may be the lower spindle plate has been lowered to try and get the governor to engage a different part of the spindle gear ,

[Inigo]

Could be that! A trick for those motors that don't have an eccentric governor bearing... The Thorens motors I've had, all then had eccentric bearings, so you can loosen the set screw, rotate the bearing, and so vary the governor meshing with the fibre gear.
These bearing, if you examine it, has an eccentric hole for the governor axis end pin, so you must adjust its position to get different distance and height from the governor axis to the fibre gear. I believe Eric Reiss explained that in The Compleat Talking Machine...?
Anyway, going back to the matter...
I noticed something is placed on the bearing plate screws, between the plate and the motor, are these small washers or springs or something? See the arrow in the photos...

IMG_20210516_100503.jpg

You could disassemble that thing and show us a photo of all the parts in it?

[poodling around]

Could be that! A trick for those motors that don't have an eccentric governor bearing... The Thorens motors I've had, all then had eccentric bearings, so you can loosen the set screw, rotate the bearing, and so vary the governor meshing with the fibre gear.
These bearing, if you examine it, has an eccentric hole for the governor axis end pin, so you must adjust its position to get different distance and height from the governor axis to the fibre gear. I believe Eric Reiss explained that in The Compleat Talking Machine...?
Anyway, going back to the matter...
I noticed something is placed on the bearing plate screws, between the plate and the motor, are these small washers or springs or something? See the arrow in the photos...
IMG_20210516_100503.jpg
You could disassemble that thing and show us a photo of all the parts in it?

Very interesting indeed Inigo.

Could you explain a little more please about 'eccentric governor bearing'. Location of it, alteration of them. Maybe a photo ?

I will take a photo of the part you mentioned soon.

Thank you again.

[poodling around]

Could be that! A trick for those motors that don't have an eccentric governor bearing... The Thorens motors I've had, all then had eccentric bearings, so you can loosen the set screw, rotate the bearing, and so vary the governor meshing with the fibre gear.
These bearing, if you examine it, has an eccentric hole for the governor axis end pin, so you must adjust its position to get different distance and height from the governor axis to the fibre gear. I believe Eric Reiss explained that in The Compleat Talking Machine...?
Anyway, going back to the matter...
I noticed something is placed on the bearing plate screws, between the plate and the motor, are these small washers or springs or something? See the arrow in the photos...
IMG_20210516_100503.jpg
You could disassemble that thing and show us a photo of all the parts in it?

Here we are.

There are two washers on each side.

[physicist]

If the governor axle is offset from the centre of the brass sleeve, its position can be altered by loosening the locking screw and rotating the brass sleeve.
You can see such an offset in this image of my Collaro motor:-

It looks to me as if the governor bearing in your motor is not eccentric:-

centred_axle.jpg (15.08 KiB) Viewed 933 times

The brass bearing appears to have the axle exactly in the centre so the position cannot be adjusted by rotating the brass bearing.

You might try removing one of the pairs of washers to see if this shifts the spindle position and improves the meshing.