Need help on a VV IX motor

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phonodesbois
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Need help on a VV IX motor

Post by phonodesbois »

As the motor was a little noisy due to old grease in the spring barrels, I did a full cleaning, reassemble everything and it worked well. A few days later, I decided to move the gramophone to a new place but it’s so heavy that it fall down on the ground (less than two feet high). I did not see damages so I wound it up (partially) and then realized that everything was jammed. I found the issue but I don’t know how to fix it securely and without new damages.
When I reassembled the motor, I did not screw enough the brass spindle pulley which tracks the governor so this pulley get stuck with the the spring barrel pulley (wound spring!!).
Becoming older, my English is vanishing so this picture (with the governor removed) should provide a better explanation of this issue
DSCN3213.JPG
Should I block the spindle, then gently (or not…) try to shift down the brass pulley then unwind the springs? Or???
Thanks for your help and advices,
Jeffon
Last edited by phonodesbois on Thu Jul 22, 2021 12:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Dave D
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Re: Need help on a VV IX motor

Post by Dave D »

I would wind it up slightly to take the pressure off the jammed gear. Then, manipulate the ratchet back and forth to allow the spring tension to be let down.
Dave D

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Inigo
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Re: Need help on a VV IX motor

Post by Inigo »

The governor gear may be installed in reverse. You may see that as the gear turns, the screw is going to be trapped on the bull gear!
In some versions of the old motors, the wide part with the set screw goes up against the upper motor plate. The opposite side, which is a narrow brass sleeve, goes down. In this way, the governor gear clears the bull gear. When it is installed as in the photo, that set screw wide neck jams on the bull gear and blocks the motor, and may damage the bull gear teeth.
Nevertheless, in some motors it can be reversed.
But I bet that here the problem has been that the governor gear has been installed as in the photo. Once the motor unblocked I would try the governor gear in reverse. Of course then it is difficult to fasten the set screw, you must do it with a long screwdriver inserted between the gear and the motor plate.
To free the jamming you may need to take the spring barrel firmly by hand, and move it backwards to free the governor gear, then carefully unlock the set screw, extract the spindle and the gear, and let the barrel release between your hands carefully, until relaxed. You may need help, although I've done this alone.
Then, revert the gear and install the spindle again until the bottom bearing, with the gear going against the motor plate as much as possible, then open a small gap between the gear sleeve and the motor plate, and fasten the screw. When reassembled, exactly in the reverse order, you may better try it a couple turns of the barrel to see if it all runs properly.
It's easier to reassemble it all with the motor in vertical position, so the ball bearing falls right in its cup at the bottom of the spindle, and the spindle tends to fall down in place against the ball. Then place the governor gear and insert the spindle from above, through the center of the governor gear, and let it fall in place, then hold the governor gear up against the motor plate. Then give a little clearance, insert the screwdriver and fix the set screw.
If the motor is of the later type, the spindle may have a little hole where the point of the screw goes, so the governor gear rests in a precise location. It's a bit tricky, but can be done with a little patience. If you're motor is of this type, the accident may have happened because the governor gear has bit been properly installed.
When finally attached, then you must pull the spindle from above, and check if there must be a little play, until the governor gear hits up on the motor plate from below. Then it goes alright. You can check free movement if you then crank a bit the motor (the governor is still removed) and watch if all rotates freely, immediately, as the spindle has no resistance. It moves with the cranking, so the springs don't take any load.
If all goes well, assemble and adjust the governor.
Inigo

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Curt A
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Re: Need help on a VV IX motor

Post by Curt A »

What Inigo said... :?
"The phonograph† is not of any commercial value."
Thomas Alva Edison - Comment to his assistant, Samuel Insull.

"No one needs a Victrola XX, a Perfected Graphophone Type G, or whatever you call those noisy things."
My Wife

phonodesbois
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Re: Need help on a VV IX motor

Post by phonodesbois »

Thanks all for the advices,
I unscrewed the set screw before taking the pic so I don't think that the set screw was an issue. In fact, when I reassembled the motor, I did not fully screw the set screw. At first it was ok but when the gramophone fell on the ground, the governor gear fell down and is now trapped on the spring barrel gear (shame on me!).
Although the governor gear is mounted the same way on my other VV IX, your suggestion for a reverse mounting does make sense and I will try it as soon as my issue is solved….
Well, I did try to move the spring barrel backwards but did not succeed so I will ask for more stronger hands !
I removed the set screw and made another pic which better describes the problem.
DSCN3219.JPG
I’m afraid that some teeth on the governor or barrel gear might be damaged as I have the feeling that I will have to maintain the spring barrel firmly by hand and then try to push down the governor gear… :cry:

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Inigo
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Re: Need help on a VV IX motor

Post by Inigo »

Something alike, but it looks like you should force the barrel to wind it up, to help unfreeze the governor gear down the spindle again. It looks like the bull gear has caught the governor gear up between two teeth when unwinding, so reversing that movement could help. The damage, if any, has already been done. The good news is that it's easy to get a spare governor gear as yours.
And yes, this photo shows that the governor gear could not need to be reversed, it seems it can go much lower than that freeing the bull gear completely. You must place it on its dimple (if any) or then completely against the motor plate, leaving but a small clearance.
When you pull up the spindle with the motor assembled, the play must be 1-2 mm, not more.
Inigo

phonodesbois
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Re: Need help on a VV IX motor

Post by phonodesbois »

:o :D Fixed!
I firmly blocked the spring while my wife knocked on the governor gear which fell down as well as the spindle. I let the spring gently unwind. No damage on the gears so we reassembled everything and the VV IX is up and running!
Many thanks to everyone, that’s a great forum.

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Inigo
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Re: Need help on a VV IX motor

Post by Inigo »

Nice! How good that the gears weren't damaged!
Inigo

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