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 Post subject: Re: The Victor Cement Mixer
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 10:35 pm 
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Victor VI
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:55 am
Posts: 3113
Location: Eugene/ Springfield Oregon USA
Lucius1958 wrote:
Could it be that the top bearing on the spindle is worn? If you apply pressure to the spindle while the motor is turning, does it have any effect?

I have a Talkophone which has had motor noise problems; and the culprit seems to be that bearing. Could you try bushing it?

Bill


It seemed to have a lot of slop with the old slightly bent spindle. The noise went away when lowering the needle on the record. If it still did that it wouldn't be so bad.

Replacement straight spindle, no slop, and now the noise is continuous.

I may have to work with finding softer rubber isolators.
"He who dies with the most shellac wins"- some nutty record geek


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 Post subject: Re: The Victor Cement Mixer
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2020 5:02 pm 
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Victor Jr
Joined: Wed Nov 15, 2017 1:32 am
Posts: 8
George - did you ever find a solution to your noise problem? These issues can be so perplexing. I don't know if it will help, but a high-tech phono-repairman friend of mine will assemble the motor without the spring barrel and rotate the first off-spring barrel gear by hand to assess whether the gears on their shafts are meshing properly. If it t passes that test, then I can imagine installing the spring barrel WITHOUT spring and rotating the barrel by hand would add the final gear to the train and allow for hand testing. A small change in the position of the spindle gear can have a noticeable effect on motor noise (and some power loss) as you will know.

Online, another repair tech has used Flitz metal polish to lap in the spindle gear to the governor shaft. Subsequent thorough cleaning to remove the abrasive polish is, of course, essential before final lubrication.

Maybe check to see that the ball thrust bearing in the governor end bushing has not gone missing? Maybe look to see if the end pins on the governor shaft have not been worn? If they have, then grinding them true and making new governor bushing(s) might resolve any side shake in the governor that could be the source of poor meshing of spindle gear to governor.

Cheers,
Don Mayer


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 Post subject: Re: The Victor Cement Mixer
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2020 9:41 pm 
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Victor VI
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:55 am
Posts: 3113
Location: Eugene/ Springfield Oregon USA
vichighmathguy wrote:
George - did you ever find a solution to your noise problem? These issues can be so perplexing. I don't know if it will help, but a high-tech phono-repairman friend of mine will assemble the motor without the spring barrel and rotate the first off-spring barrel gear by hand to assess whether the gears on their shafts are meshing properly. If it t passes that test, then I can imagine installing the spring barrel WITHOUT spring and rotating the barrel by hand would add the final gear to the train and allow for hand testing. A small change in the position of the spindle gear can have a noticeable effect on motor noise (and some power loss) as you will know.

Online, another repair tech has used Flitz metal polish to lap in the spindle gear to the governor shaft. Subsequent thorough cleaning to remove the abrasive polish is, of course, essential before final lubrication.

Maybe check to see that the ball thrust bearing in the governor end bushing has not gone missing? Maybe look to see if the end pins on the governor shaft have not been worn? If they have, then grinding them true and making new governor bushing(s) might resolve any side shake in the governor that could be the source of poor meshing of spindle gear to governor.

Cheers,
Don Mayer


Hi Don:
I actually did wind up fixing the noise. What did it was moving the positions of the governor drive gears around. I had a Zonophone motor that was oud as hell also and this fixed that as well. Seems these gears prefer minimal contact.
"He who dies with the most shellac wins"- some nutty record geek


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 Post subject: Re: The Victor Cement Mixer
PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2020 1:42 pm 
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Victor Jr
Joined: Wed Nov 15, 2017 1:32 am
Posts: 8
Hi again,

When you mention "moving the governor drive gears around", are you referring to the only gear that makes contact with the governor, namely the one mounted on the turntable spindle shaft? Or are you possibly thinking of rotating the governor support bushings to see if some adjustment might be made to the amount of mesh between spindle gear and governor shaft?

Your answer helps build a mental library of things that might work in such matters.

Thanks very much,

Don


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 Post subject: Re: The Victor Cement Mixer
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2020 2:48 pm 
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Victor IV
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Keep'em well oiled
Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:51 am
Posts: 1085
Location: Madrid, Spain
Some Thorens motors have an eccentric governor bushing, so this adjustment is possible, intended to be done in fact, by turning the bushing until there's perfect and soft mesh between the drive gear (fiber in this case) and the governor worm. I believe some Garrard motors have also this same feature.
Inigo


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 Post subject: Re: The Victor Cement Mixer
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2020 4:49 pm 
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Victor VI
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:55 am
Posts: 3113
Location: Eugene/ Springfield Oregon USA
vichighmathguy wrote:
Hi again,

When you mention "moving the governor drive gears around", are you referring to the only gear that makes contact with the governor, namely the one mounted on the turntable spindle shaft? Or are you possibly thinking of rotating the governor support bushings to see if some adjustment might be made to the amount of mesh between spindle gear and governor shaft?

Your answer helps build a mental library of things that might work in such matters.

Thanks very much,

Don


Hi Don
I am talking about how the worm gear on the governor contacts the drive gear. If I recall, the motor ran noisiest when the drive gear was centered exactly in the worm gear (side to side). I offset the governor a bit and the noise stopped.

I had a similar issue on a Victor Zonophone Oxford that I solved in the same way. I can't remember exactly which position solved the noise, and I no longer have either machine, unfortunately. You'll need to play around. Make note of the set screw for the collar so that it doesn't hit the drive gear.
"He who dies with the most shellac wins"- some nutty record geek


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 Post subject: Re: The Victor Cement Mixer
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 1:29 am 
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Victor Monarch Special
Stop for a visit when in Oregon.
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2009 12:25 pm
Posts: 7473
Location: Albany, Oregon
I'm probably the least mechanical person to comment on this thread but I remember talking to long time collector, Harold Breaker (sp?). He talked about the importance of using shims to help quiet the early Victor motors.

Jerry B.


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 Post subject: Re: The Victor Cement Mixer
PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:48 pm 
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Victor VI
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:55 am
Posts: 3113
Location: Eugene/ Springfield Oregon USA
Jerry B. wrote:
I'm probably the least mechanical person to comment on this thread but I remember talking to long time collector, Harold Breaker (sp?). He talked about the importance of using shims to help quiet the early Victor motors.

Jerry B.


What kind of shims and where?
"He who dies with the most shellac wins"- some nutty record geek


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 Post subject: Re: The Victor Cement Mixer
PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 11:16 pm 
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Victor Monarch Special
Stop for a visit when in Oregon.
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2009 12:25 pm
Posts: 7473
Location: Albany, Oregon
Quote:
What kind of shims and where?


I probably should not have commented because I really don't know. I would assume where parts mount or on shafts or??? I just remember Harold making that comment. Some time later I purchased a Victor D type motor that Harold had rebuilt and it was quiet. I wish I could contribute more.

Jerry B.


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 Post subject: Re: The Victor Cement Mixer
PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2020 10:05 am 
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Victor IV
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Keep'em well oiled
Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:51 am
Posts: 1085
Location: Madrid, Spain
But Harold talked about shimming the main spring arbour, to avoid the bull gear from attacking the spindle sideways. Nothing to do with the spindle gear and governor worm. I'm suffering this case. One thing is that if you fix the drive gear well up against the upper motor plate, the imperfections don't let it run smoothly. You have to leave a small gap between them. Advice: when installing the drive gear, don't push it up the spindle completely. The sliding surfaces of the set screw collar and the upper motor plate are not polished, so the spindle will be retained at one or more places in one turn. This eats out the spring power, and the effect is a clanking noise in the governor, for it is losing the power that drives it, and the gear backlash comes into action.
Inigo


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