The Victor Cement Mixer

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gramophone-georg
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Re: The Victor Cement Mixer

Post by gramophone-georg »

Lucius1958 wrote:Could it be that the top bearing on the spindle is worn? If you apply pressure to the spindle while the motor is turning, does it have any effect?

I have a Talkophone which has had motor noise problems; and the culprit seems to be that bearing. Could you try bushing it?

Bill
It seemed to have a lot of slop with the old slightly bent spindle. The noise went away when lowering the needle on the record. If it still did that it wouldn't be so bad.

Replacement straight spindle, no slop, and now the noise is continuous.

I may have to work with finding softer rubber isolators.
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vichighmathguy
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Re: The Victor Cement Mixer

Post by vichighmathguy »

George - did you ever find a solution to your noise problem? These issues can be so perplexing. I don't know if it will help, but a high-tech phono-repairman friend of mine will assemble the motor without the spring barrel and rotate the first off-spring barrel gear by hand to assess whether the gears on their shafts are meshing properly. If it t passes that test, then I can imagine installing the spring barrel WITHOUT spring and rotating the barrel by hand would add the final gear to the train and allow for hand testing. A small change in the position of the spindle gear can have a noticeable effect on motor noise (and some power loss) as you will know.

Online, another repair tech has used Flitz metal polish to lap in the spindle gear to the governor shaft. Subsequent thorough cleaning to remove the abrasive polish is, of course, essential before final lubrication.

Maybe check to see that the ball thrust bearing in the governor end bushing has not gone missing? Maybe look to see if the end pins on the governor shaft have not been worn? If they have, then grinding them true and making new governor bushing(s) might resolve any side shake in the governor that could be the source of poor meshing of spindle gear to governor.

Cheers,
Don Mayer

gramophone-georg
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Re: The Victor Cement Mixer

Post by gramophone-georg »

vichighmathguy wrote:George - did you ever find a solution to your noise problem? These issues can be so perplexing. I don't know if it will help, but a high-tech phono-repairman friend of mine will assemble the motor without the spring barrel and rotate the first off-spring barrel gear by hand to assess whether the gears on their shafts are meshing properly. If it t passes that test, then I can imagine installing the spring barrel WITHOUT spring and rotating the barrel by hand would add the final gear to the train and allow for hand testing. A small change in the position of the spindle gear can have a noticeable effect on motor noise (and some power loss) as you will know.

Online, another repair tech has used Flitz metal polish to lap in the spindle gear to the governor shaft. Subsequent thorough cleaning to remove the abrasive polish is, of course, essential before final lubrication.

Maybe check to see that the ball thrust bearing in the governor end bushing has not gone missing? Maybe look to see if the end pins on the governor shaft have not been worn? If they have, then grinding them true and making new governor bushing(s) might resolve any side shake in the governor that could be the source of poor meshing of spindle gear to governor.

Cheers,
Don Mayer
Hi Don:
I actually did wind up fixing the noise. What did it was moving the positions of the governor drive gears around. I had a Zonophone motor that was oud as hell also and this fixed that as well. Seems these gears prefer minimal contact.
"He who dies with the most shellac wins"- some nutty record geek

vichighmathguy
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Re: The Victor Cement Mixer

Post by vichighmathguy »

Hi again,

When you mention "moving the governor drive gears around", are you referring to the only gear that makes contact with the governor, namely the one mounted on the turntable spindle shaft? Or are you possibly thinking of rotating the governor support bushings to see if some adjustment might be made to the amount of mesh between spindle gear and governor shaft?

Your answer helps build a mental library of things that might work in such matters.

Thanks very much,

Don

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Inigo
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Re: The Victor Cement Mixer

Post by Inigo »

Some Thorens motors have an eccentric governor bushing, so this adjustment is possible, intended to be done in fact, by turning the bushing until there's perfect and soft mesh between the drive gear (fiber in this case) and the governor worm. I believe some Garrard motors have also this same feature.
Inigo

gramophone-georg
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Re: The Victor Cement Mixer

Post by gramophone-georg »

vichighmathguy wrote:Hi again,

When you mention "moving the governor drive gears around", are you referring to the only gear that makes contact with the governor, namely the one mounted on the turntable spindle shaft? Or are you possibly thinking of rotating the governor support bushings to see if some adjustment might be made to the amount of mesh between spindle gear and governor shaft?

Your answer helps build a mental library of things that might work in such matters.

Thanks very much,

Don
Hi Don
I am talking about how the worm gear on the governor contacts the drive gear. If I recall, the motor ran noisiest when the drive gear was centered exactly in the worm gear (side to side). I offset the governor a bit and the noise stopped.

I had a similar issue on a Victor Zonophone Oxford that I solved in the same way. I can't remember exactly which position solved the noise, and I no longer have either machine, unfortunately. You'll need to play around. Make note of the set screw for the collar so that it doesn't hit the drive gear.
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Jerry B.
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Re: The Victor Cement Mixer

Post by Jerry B. »

I'm probably the least mechanical person to comment on this thread but I remember talking to long time collector, Harold Breaker (sp?). He talked about the importance of using shims to help quiet the early Victor motors.

Jerry B.

gramophone-georg
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Re: The Victor Cement Mixer

Post by gramophone-georg »

Jerry B. wrote:I'm probably the least mechanical person to comment on this thread but I remember talking to long time collector, Harold Breaker (sp?). He talked about the importance of using shims to help quiet the early Victor motors.

Jerry B.
What kind of shims and where?
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Jerry B.
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Re: The Victor Cement Mixer

Post by Jerry B. »

What kind of shims and where?
I probably should not have commented because I really don't know. I would assume where parts mount or on shafts or??? I just remember Harold making that comment. Some time later I purchased a Victor D type motor that Harold had rebuilt and it was quiet. I wish I could contribute more.

Jerry B.

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Inigo
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Re: The Victor Cement Mixer

Post by Inigo »

But Harold talked about shimming the main spring arbour, to avoid the bull gear from attacking the spindle sideways. Nothing to do with the spindle gear and governor worm. I'm suffering this case. One thing is that if you fix the drive gear well up against the upper motor plate, the imperfections don't let it run smoothly. You have to leave a small gap between them. Advice: when installing the drive gear, don't push it up the spindle completely. The sliding surfaces of the set screw collar and the upper motor plate are not polished, so the spindle will be retained at one or more places in one turn. This eats out the spring power, and the effect is a clanking noise in the governor, for it is losing the power that drives it, and the gear backlash comes into action.
Inigo

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