Questions on Columbia Analyzing sound quality.

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VanEpsFan1914
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Questions on Columbia Analyzing sound quality.

Post by VanEpsFan1914 »

I'm still tinkering with my 1909 Graphophone Model BN.

It now plays great, except I don't like the sound. I redid the reproducer and it sounds way too loud, compared to a Victor Exhibition. It's ear-splitting and tinny and not great.

Is there a part I'm missing? Thanks for checking in.

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SteveM
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Re: Questions on Columbia Analyzing sound quality.

Post by SteveM »

Hey ... bump city! I'd also like to know of the proper way to adjust these. My two are quite ear-splitting, even with extra-soft needles. Heck, even with toothpicks. They've been rebuilt with great care (and expense :x )
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VanEpsFan1914
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Re: Questions on Columbia Analyzing sound quality.

Post by VanEpsFan1914 »

And--I never did figure out what was going on.

Mine won't really hold soft-tone needles, so I have to feed it loud tone or Siren Spear Points (which I am growing to dislike, thinking the steel is too hard) and then the BN really does rip out.

Could they just be loud because Columbia records of this time were of very poor quality? I love the music Columbia recorded--but they're the indie garage band label of the 78rpm era, for me. Great tunes, awesome artists, but terrible fidelity and soft shellac. Their cylinders, though, are top-shelf.

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Governor Flyball
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Re: Questions on Columbia Analyzing sound quality.

Post by Governor Flyball »

My graphophone plays loudly as well... depending upon how the stylus is inserted. If you examine the soundbox armature ratio, you will find the ratio is higher than on the Victor Exhibition. The later Orthophonic soundbox had still a lower armature ratio which I think was chosen to help better track and reproduce bass.

My solution is to not push the stylus all the way in but to only as far enough as to be held by the screw. The extended stylus reduces the tinniness and volume due to the reduced ratio from stylus to diaphragm.

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SteveM
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Re: Questions on Columbia Analyzing sound quality.

Post by SteveM »

Governor Flyball wrote:My graphophone plays loudly as well... depending upon how the stylus is inserted. If you examine the soundbox armature ratio, you will find the ratio is higher than on the Victor Exhibition. The later Orthophonic soundbox had still a lower armature ratio which I think was chosen to help better track and reproduce bass.

My solution is to not push the stylus all the way in but to only as far enough as to be held by the screw. The extended stylus reduces the tinniness and volume due to the reduced ratio from stylus to diaphragm.
Ahhh ... I hadn't seen this response at the time.

I tried this just now, but alas, with the spring clip needle holder on mine, the needle just gets pushed right up by the weight of the reproducer, so no dice there for me.

I've been neglecting my BIs lately (in favor of my orthophonics) but they are still blasting so bad, even with acoustic discs ... as to almost make me nauseous (seriously). No matter how much I mess with the needle bar screws. I even "put a sock in it" but the overtones still drive me bananas. Extra-soft needles, standing about thirty feet away (foyer to dining room), acoustic discs ... I can't take it and DIVE for that brake!

I know Wyatt has said that these reproducers are great yet highly misunderstood and therefore not rebuilt correctly. Tim Fabrizio did my two, and I can't believe that he would have screwed them up.

They are so beautiful though, and built so well. I really really want to use them! Is it difficult to remove these tonearms? I don't think I can try an "Improved"-style reproducer on these without replacing the tonearm, correct? Will any other type of tonearm work? (A plano-reflex from a Viva Tonal 2a is what I'd really love to put on these!)
“The cup of tea on arrival at a country house is a thing which, as a rule, I particularly enjoy. I like the crackling logs, the shaded lights, the scent of buttered toast, the general atmosphere of leisured cosiness.”

P. G. Wodehouse

VanEpsFan1914
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Re: Questions on Columbia Analyzing sound quality.

Post by VanEpsFan1914 »

Hey--

--I'm back after experimenting on the BN.

Best you can do for these, at least in my guess, is to use them for Columbia acoustic recordings. The deeper bass of these discs works better with the Columbia Analyzing.

Extra soft needles are not the right idea. Medium tone or loud (so it fits the needle chuck,) and old Columbia acoustic discs, or pre-1912 Victors. That's how I've been using mine.

It sounds good for those particular kinds of discs.

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SteveM
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Re: Questions on Columbia Analyzing sound quality.

Post by SteveM »

VanEpsFan1914 wrote:Hey--

--I'm back after experimenting on the BN.

Best you can do for these, at least in my guess, is to use them for Columbia acoustic recordings. The deeper bass of these discs works better with the Columbia Analyzing.

Extra soft needles are not the right idea. Medium tone or loud (so it fits the needle chuck,) and old Columbia acoustic discs, or pre-1912 Victors. That's how I've been using mine.

It sounds good for those particular kinds of discs.
Oh my.

"Why does daddy keep listening to O Tannenbaum over and over?" :D :cry:
“The cup of tea on arrival at a country house is a thing which, as a rule, I particularly enjoy. I like the crackling logs, the shaded lights, the scent of buttered toast, the general atmosphere of leisured cosiness.”

P. G. Wodehouse

VanEpsFan1914
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Re: Questions on Columbia Analyzing sound quality.

Post by VanEpsFan1914 »

At least you have a perfect excuse to go get some Columbia acoustics.

I think the Graphophones are beautiful to look at but they are really Columbia-centric if you want something to listen to. A Victrola will play the same records but will not have such a hard time with discs from other brands.

Consider how different the Columbia reproducer is than the typical Victor or off-brand. The tonearm looks like a bathtub faucet, the pivots are metal nubs and everything is suspended on stiff coil springs, and the horns flare way sooner than the Victor type. Columbia Records just sound good with all that...then sound weird on a Victrola. And vice versa.

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Re: Questions on Columbia Analyzing sound quality.

Post by gramophone-georg »

First- have either of you guys contacted Mica Monster about this?

If it were me what I see with these machines is lack of an isolator. I am thinking one could be created with a supple rubber or silicone O ring of the right size between the arm and the repro, plus three smaller rings under the heads of the fixing screws... just snug, maybe with a light coating of Vaseline to seal.

To me, this sounds like a compliance issue- there's more vibration than "give". Also, tighten your springs JUST enough so there's no rattle. I'm assuming you've replaced diaphragm gaskets- maybe a softer material is in order there.
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SteveM
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Re: Questions on Columbia Analyzing sound quality.

Post by SteveM »

gramophone-georg wrote:First- have either of you guys contacted Mica Monster about this?

If it were me what I see with these machines is lack of an isolator. I am thinking one could be created with a supple rubber or silicone O ring of the right size between the arm and the repro, plus three smaller rings under the heads of the fixing screws... just snug, maybe with a light coating of Vaseline to seal.

To me, this sounds like a compliance issue- there's more vibration than "give". Also, tighten your springs JUST enough so there's no rattle. I'm assuming you've replaced diaphragm gaskets- maybe a softer material is in order there.

Wyatt has popped in on some Analyzing threads ... I'm open to home remedies right now, but may send 'em off.
“The cup of tea on arrival at a country house is a thing which, as a rule, I particularly enjoy. I like the crackling logs, the shaded lights, the scent of buttered toast, the general atmosphere of leisured cosiness.”

P. G. Wodehouse

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