Ideal tonearm length ?

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Daithi
Victor II
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Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2019 8:31 pm

Re: Ideal tonearm length ?

Post by Daithi »

BillH_NJ wrote: The volume is very low .

Bill
I'm surprised to hear the volume is low since it was designed to be heard in a movie theater.

Daithi
Victor II
Posts: 265
Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2019 8:31 pm

Re: Ideal tonearm length ?

Post by Daithi »

Inigo wrote:Didn't the Crescent or Vesper gramophone also have a square cross section wooden tonearm? Search in the forum.


I searched but didn't find the one you refer to but it led me to a very nice, looked like ebony and brass hybrid tonearm by Vesper.

BillH_NJ
Victor II
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Location: Plainfield, NJ

Re: Ideal tonearm length ?

Post by BillH_NJ »

Daithi wrote:
BillH_NJ wrote: The volume is very low .

Bill
I'm surprised to hear the volume is low since it was designed to be heard in a movie theater.
The name is the same but that was a completely separate company and system about 10 years later.

OrthoFan
Victor V
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Re: Ideal tonearm length ?

Post by OrthoFan »

BillH_NJ wrote:
Daithi wrote:
BillH_NJ wrote: The volume is very low .
Bill
I'm surprised to hear the volume is low since it was designed to be heard in a movie theater.
The name is the same but that was a completely separate company and system about 10 years later.

Hi Daithi:

Here's a little background information about the earlier Vitaphone phonograph --

https://www.intertique.com/VitaphoneDemo.html
http://keithwright.ca/CAPP/Vitaphone/vitaphone.html

Here's the "Vitaphone" sound movie process developed by Western Electric -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitaphone

As Bill noted, they are completely different technologies, by different companies.

By the way, there have been a number of posts on this forum over the past years dealing with the question of tracking error. SEE: https://www.google.com/search?as_q=site ... as_rights=

OrthoFan

Daithi
Victor II
Posts: 265
Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2019 8:31 pm

Re: Ideal tonearm length ?

Post by Daithi »

OrthoFan wrote: By the way, there have been a number of posts on this forum over the past years dealing with the question of tracking error. SEE: https://www.google.com/search?as_q=site ... as_rights=
OrthoFan
That link is full of treasures including the attached image.
Thanks Ortho, so much to read, so little time.
Attachments
Modern_Gramophones_1929_0148.jpg

OrthoFan
Victor V
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Re: Ideal tonearm length ?

Post by OrthoFan »

Hi Daithi:

I'm glad you were able to find some useful information. I don't remember if this page was among the linked information in the various posts. If not, you might also find this helpful:

http://www.graham-ophones.co.uk/keeping ... 4590882209

OrthoFan

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audioengr
Victor Jr
Posts: 42
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2019 1:58 pm
Personal Text: Roaring 20's

Re: Ideal tonearm length ?

Post by audioengr »

Daithi wrote:Presumably a longer tonearm has less tracking error.
So why are so many tonearms so short?
And what is the ideal practical length for a tonearm to minimise tracking error?
Here is an analysis for perfect tracking across a 10" record:
Zero tracking error analysis.pdf
(8.57 KiB) Downloaded 75 times
39" is obviously not practical, but if you are using an Exhibition reproducer, moving the tone arm pivot back about .5" on a Victor II machine reduces the tracking error to about 12 degrees at the start of the grooves and about 12 degrees at the finish. If you are using a Victor 4, then about .75-.8 inches is optimum for most Victor Gramophones. I added a bustle to the back of my Victor II bustle to get .75" more and it resulted in much better SQ.
Attachments
Needle-tracking-analysis.pdf
(8.7 KiB) Downloaded 73 times

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audioengr
Victor Jr
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Re: Ideal tonearm length ?

Post by audioengr »

If your volume is low, it is probably because the interface between your needle-arm and the diaphragm (where the screw is), is not flat, so it is creating stress on the diaphragm. You can usually see this stress waves if you look at the reproducer diaphragm at an angle in the light. Sometimes, you can just carefully bend slightly the curve that attaches to the diaphragm and get the stress waves to disappear. It will "pop" into loudness once you do this.

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Orchorsol
Victor IV
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Re: Ideal tonearm length ?

Post by Orchorsol »

As many other members have correctly pointed out already, zero tracking error is impossible with a pivoted tonearm of any length, by definition. (Very low tracking error is however possible with a very long tonearm.)
BCN thorn needles made to the original 1920s specifications: http://www.burmesecolourneedles.com

Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCe4DNb ... TPE-zTAJGg?

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AudioFeline
Victor II
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Personal Text: Sounds good to me...
Location: Melbourne, Australia.

Re: Ideal tonearm length ?

Post by AudioFeline »

Exactly, which is why it's been difficult to give a precise answer to the OP's question as to what is the "best" arm length. Each pivot (non-tangental) design is a compromise, between minimising tracking error with a long arm, and the weight/resonance introduced with longer arms as compared to shorter arms. The style, materials, quality of components will all contribute to the end product. That's why there have been so many produced in the marketplace.

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