The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

It is currently Fri Oct 23, 2020 8:13 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 91 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Ideal tonearm length ?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:59 pm 
Offline
Victor II
Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:31 pm
Posts: 220
BillH_NJ wrote:
The volume is very low .

Bill


I'm surprised to hear the volume is low since it was designed to be heard in a movie theater.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ideal tonearm length ?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:02 pm 
Offline
Victor II
Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:31 pm
Posts: 220
Inigo wrote:
Didn't the Crescent or Vesper gramophone also have a square cross section wooden tonearm? Search in the forum.


I searched but didn't find the one you refer to but it led me to a very nice, looked like ebony and brass hybrid tonearm by Vesper.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ideal tonearm length ?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:31 pm 
Offline
Victor II
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:14 pm
Posts: 230
Location: Plainfield, NJ
Daithi wrote:
BillH_NJ wrote:
The volume is very low .

Bill


I'm surprised to hear the volume is low since it was designed to be heard in a movie theater.


The name is the same but that was a completely separate company and system about 10 years later.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ideal tonearm length ?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:30 pm 
Offline
Victor IV
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2016 7:12 pm
Posts: 1710
BillH_NJ wrote:
Daithi wrote:
BillH_NJ wrote:
The volume is very low .
Bill

I'm surprised to hear the volume is low since it was designed to be heard in a movie theater.


The name is the same but that was a completely separate company and system about 10 years later.



Hi Daithi:

Here's a little background information about the earlier Vitaphone phonograph --

https://www.intertique.com/VitaphoneDemo.html
http://keithwright.ca/CAPP/Vitaphone/vitaphone.html

Here's the "Vitaphone" sound movie process developed by Western Electric -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitaphone

As Bill noted, they are completely different technologies, by different companies.

By the way, there have been a number of posts on this forum over the past years dealing with the question of tracking error. SEE: https://www.google.com/search?as_q=site ... as_rights=

OrthoFan


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ideal tonearm length ?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 7:58 am 
Offline
Victor II
Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:31 pm
Posts: 220
OrthoFan wrote:
By the way, there have been a number of posts on this forum over the past years dealing with the question of tracking error. SEE: https://www.google.com/search?as_q=site ... as_rights=
OrthoFan


That link is full of treasures including the attached image.
Thanks Ortho, so much to read, so little time.


Attachments:
Modern_Gramophones_1929_0148.jpg
Modern_Gramophones_1929_0148.jpg [ 132.42 KiB | Viewed 393 times ]
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ideal tonearm length ?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 1:16 pm 
Offline
Victor IV
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2016 7:12 pm
Posts: 1710
Hi Daithi:

I'm glad you were able to find some useful information. I don't remember if this page was among the linked information in the various posts. If not, you might also find this helpful:

http://www.graham-ophones.co.uk/keeping ... 4590882209

OrthoFan


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ideal tonearm length ?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:11 pm 
Offline
Victor Jr
User avatar
Roaring 20's
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2019 2:58 pm
Posts: 42
Daithi wrote:
Presumably a longer tonearm has less tracking error.
So why are so many tonearms so short?
And what is the ideal practical length for a tonearm to minimise tracking error?


Here is an analysis for perfect tracking across a 10" record:

Attachment:
Zero tracking error analysis.pdf [8.57 KiB]
Downloaded 31 times


39" is obviously not practical, but if you are using an Exhibition reproducer, moving the tone arm pivot back about .5" on a Victor II machine reduces the tracking error to about 12 degrees at the start of the grooves and about 12 degrees at the finish. If you are using a Victor 4, then about .75-.8 inches is optimum for most Victor Gramophones. I added a bustle to the back of my Victor II bustle to get .75" more and it resulted in much better SQ.


Attachments:
Needle-tracking-analysis.pdf [8.7 KiB]
Downloaded 24 times
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ideal tonearm length ?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:19 pm 
Offline
Victor Jr
User avatar
Roaring 20's
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2019 2:58 pm
Posts: 42
If your volume is low, it is probably because the interface between your needle-arm and the diaphragm (where the screw is), is not flat, so it is creating stress on the diaphragm. You can usually see this stress waves if you look at the reproducer diaphragm at an angle in the light. Sometimes, you can just carefully bend slightly the curve that attaches to the diaphragm and get the stress waves to disappear. It will "pop" into loudness once you do this.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ideal tonearm length ?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:21 pm 
Offline
Victor IV
User avatar
Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:03 am
Posts: 1053
Location: Dover, UK
As many other members have correctly pointed out already, zero tracking error is impossible with a pivoted tonearm of any length, by definition. (Very low tracking error is however possible with a very long tonearm.)
BCN thorn needles made to the original 1920s specifications: http://www.burmesecolourneedles.com

Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCe4DNb ... TPE-zTAJGg?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ideal tonearm length ?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 9:46 pm 
Offline
Victor O
User avatar
Sounds good to me...
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:25 pm
Posts: 61
Location: Melbourne, Australia.
Exactly, which is why it's been difficult to give a precise answer to the OP's question as to what is the "best" arm length. Each pivot (non-tangental) design is a compromise, between minimising tracking error with a long arm, and the weight/resonance introduced with longer arms as compared to shorter arms. The style, materials, quality of components will all contribute to the end product. That's why there have been so many produced in the marketplace.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 91 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Content © 2009-2020 by The Talking Machine Forum and the respective posters.
Americanized by Maël Soucaze.