Opening up brass mandrel ?

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kirtley2012
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Opening up brass mandrel ?

Post by kirtley2012 »

Has anyone experience with opening up a brass phonograph mandrel or knowledge of how it was put together in the first place?

I need to try and open up at least one side of the mandrel on my early edison home to repair some major dent damage but can't quite think in what order it was put together

gramophoneshane
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Re: Opening up brass mandrel ?

Post by gramophoneshane »

Unfortunately I can't answer your question. I wish I could.
But my advise for what it's worth is don't rush into this.
If it were me, I'd go as far as to obtaining a spare later perhaps damaged mandrel to practice on first, just to make sure I could successfully pull one apart and put it back together properly.
Otherwise I'd consider sending it off to be done professionally.
I just don't think such an early mandrel should be used to learn on.
If it's put back together even slightly differently it will throw everything out of wack, and the last thing you want is to have to find an appropriate replacement

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Re: Opening up brass mandrel ?

Post by Jerry B. »

There are repairmen that do minor car body repair that does not require repainting. They remove minor dents and door dings and are most successful when the paint is not disturbed. They work with small tools and get in some tight places. I'd suggest you ask at a used car lot that deals in better quality autos.

If that doesn't work I'd ask at a metal plating shop. I know you don't want it plated but they are familiar with working with metals and repairing small damage.

Good luck with your project. Jerry B.

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gramophone-georg
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Re: Opening up brass mandrel ?

Post by gramophone-georg »

If you can get it off the spindle, seal one side with something like Miliputt and fill the mandrel with water. Leave it in the freezer overnight.

This *might* get rid of the dent. Knock or drill your Miliputt out if the freezing water hasn't already done it. Use as little as possible.
"He who dies with the most shellac wins"- some nutty record geek

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kirtley2012
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Re: Opening up brass mandrel ?

Post by kirtley2012 »

gramophone-georg wrote:If you can get it off the spindle, seal one side with something like Miliputt and fill the mandrel with water. Leave it in the freezer overnight.

This *might* get rid of the dent. Knock or drill your Miliputt out if the freezing water hasn't already done it. Use as little as possible.
I had thought about trying that, not sure how it wants to come off the spindle though, I'll take it to the workshop today and try some gentle persuasion to loosen the shaft, I imagine it's either a press fit or solder or a combination of the two

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Re: Opening up brass mandrel ?

Post by gramophoneshane »

It may be worth contacting MicaMonster here on the forum first.
I seem to recall him opening one of these (possibly on a Class M?) that he restored. I could be wrong because it was many years ago, quite possibly on one of the old forums that closed down.
I guess there's no harm in sending him a PM here or an email through his website.

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PeterF
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Re: Opening up brass mandrel ?

Post by PeterF »

Wyatt (micamonster) is the only person to whom I would entrust this work.

gramophoneshane
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Re: Opening up brass mandrel ?

Post by gramophoneshane »

Peter, if it was mine and i intended sending it out for repair, I'd have to agree that Wyatt would be the person doing it. I don't know why I didn't think of him sooner.
I can honestly say that in the last 15 yrs or so since getting my first computer and discovering forums, never ever have I once seen (pictures of) anything Wyatt has restored and thought to myself that I know of someone who could have done that better. He's like a magician, and you can tell right away that he's put a lot of time, care and love into his restorations. Look at any before and after shots of his, and you just think wow, that's amazing.

That said, I'm guessing it's probably not practical for Alex to send this off due to time distance and cost. I know it would be for me. I also believe the best way to learn something is by doing it yourself which is probably how Wyatt became so skilled in a lot of what he can do today.

I have to admit Alex, when I read "gentle persuasion to loosen the shaft", I cringed lol.
Not because I thought this kids gonna stuff up the mandrel, but because I thought you were going in blind, and perhaps a little too quickly.
It's not like it has to be fixed in 2 days time. You may want to do more to t the cabinet, the bedplate has to be painted and decorated, latches and hinges cleaned and polished etc, so at best you've got a week or two before the mandrel needs to be done.

On any of the early machines I think most of us would agree that the very first thing to catch you eye is the brass mandrel, except maybe an M where I'd give equal billing to the exposed governor. So any dents, scratches, exposed solder etc will immediately distract from the overall appearance of the machine.
This is obviously something that has to be fixed, because a phonograph that you can't slide a cylinder onto is simply useless.
The mandrel is never going to be perfect, probably not even with use of specialist equipment and expert hands, so I'd be aiming for removing as much damage possible without adding more to it, and preserving originality.
Another option is a replacement, but were you going to find one and what will it cost?
You'll probably find 10 Automatics and 15 carriage arms before you find 1 mandrel, and you'd probably get a complete usable Standard B for the same price lol.
You might get lucky and find that 5 mins with a soldering iron and the mandrels apart, and it goes back together just as easily, but then you may not.
I still think the mandrel is the onething worth taking the time to find out about from someone who's done it before, so you have some insight into how it's built and possible sequence to dismantle it best.

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Re: Opening up brass mandrel ?

Post by JerryVan »

I don't know about the early brass mandrels, but I can state that the later, nickle plated ones, were soldered to the shafts and the end cap, at the big end, was soldered in place.

gramophoneshane
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Re: Opening up brass mandrel ?

Post by gramophoneshane »

Good to see you got the mandrel open and repaired Alex. You must be pleased with the result. With that problem solved, the restoration of everything else should be a breeze.

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