Victrola Credenza grill cloth

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SittingRabbit
Victor I
Posts: 119
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2020 5:09 pm
Location: Indiana, PA

Victrola Credenza grill cloth

Post by SittingRabbit »

Hello all, novice here with my first post. About a year ago, I bought a victrola credenza at a yard sale. Just about everything needs restored on it.

Then last week, I bought another one that has a great looking cabinet, but the motor is gone and it was replaced with a motor back in the 60s (see picture 6). The speed control is gone, but there's an on/off switch in its place (see picture 5), with the power cord coming out the crank hole. It's very quiet, runs at the correct speed, and works great. However, the gold plating needs redone on the reproducer, arm, needle cup, etc (suggestions on who could restore the gold?). I tried cleaning the grill cloth, but I ripped it a little and I feel sick about it (see picture 4 and 3 that I took after I removed the grill boardup out of the top by taking out the 4 screws and wiggling it up out). I have around a hundred new needles that I bought off of ebay from a victrola guy in Gettysburg, plus I have several thousand 78 records (yes, that many as some guy had a garage full of them and they were free). I recently purchased a replacement grill cloth from APSCO in Vermont (see picture 2) which they said was loomed by an old woman years ago specific for orthophonic players, which looks close to the original. I'm going to keep the original grill cloth, maybe mend it (any thoughts on the best course of action?), but wouldn't dream of throwing it away as it belongs with its history.

FYLP Restoration in Binghamton, NY restored my GE grandfather clock radio from 1930 (haven't picked it up yet), and they restore victrolas too, but I don't know how historically accurate they are.

How does one take out the inlets that holds the grill cloth in (see picture 1)? Are they glued in? They seem tight in there. I obviously don't want to snap them. Thoughts?

Who can rebuild my pneumatic lid supports? No matter how I adjust them, there's no air resistance.

Thanks everyone!
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How do I take out the inlet that's holding the grill cloth in?
How do I take out the inlet that's holding the grill cloth in?
New grill cloth
New grill cloth
Back side of the rip
Back side of the rip
Front side of the rip
Front side of the rip
Motor added I'm assuming in the 60s
Motor added I'm assuming in the 60s
The speed control is gone with an on/off switch added
The speed control is gone with an on/off switch added

JerryVan
Victor Monarch Special
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Re: Victrola Credenza grill cloth

Post by JerryVan »

Show photos of your gold plating and reproducer. Chances are, it would be far cheaper just to buy another tone arm with good plating than to have yours redone.

There are some excellent YouTube videos on rebuilding the lid supports, (dash pots).

Even with the rip I would leave the original grill cloth alone. Almost anything you do to remove it or patch it will only cause it to disintegrate further. The pieces holding it in are just pressed in a groove. Very hard to remove without breaking it. The new cloth looks very good. Finding it is the sort of the holy grail of Credenzas. Interesting that APSCO has some. It's thought to be extinct.

SittingRabbit
Victor I
Posts: 119
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2020 5:09 pm
Location: Indiana, PA

Re: Victrola Credenza grill cloth

Post by SittingRabbit »

Here they are. The tear is bugging me haha! Think sewing it is feasible? If that new grill cloth is really nice, I might go for it. As for the pneumatic pistons, I saw the videos. I thought maybe someone on here could do it for me as it fouled enough up already.
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SittingRabbit
Victor I
Posts: 119
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2020 5:09 pm
Location: Indiana, PA

Re: Victrola Credenza grill cloth

Post by SittingRabbit »

Just received the new orthophonic grill cloth that the old woman spun years ago. Here's the comparison between the two:
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Looking through the holes. It feels like a woven cloth almost.
Looking through the holes. It feels like a woven cloth almost.
Up close. The dark pattern are the holes.
Up close. The dark pattern are the holes.
Seeing through the new one up closer to see the detailing.
Seeing through the new one up closer to see the detailing.
Seeing through the original one.
Seeing through the original one.
Seeing through it. It's thicker than the original, and I suppose the holes aren't as see through.
Seeing through it. It's thicker than the original, and I suppose the holes aren't as see through.
New orthophonic grill cloth that the old woman spun years ago.
New orthophonic grill cloth that the old woman spun years ago.

VanEpsFan1914
Victor VI
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Personal Text: I've got both kinds of music--classical & rag-time.
Location: South Carolina

Re: Victrola Credenza grill cloth

Post by VanEpsFan1914 »

Two Credenzas is a fine way into phonographs. I hope you have many more years of enjoying them.

The gold doesn't look great but if you didn't want to buy new tonearms and reproducers, why not take some gold Rub n' Buff wax and apply according to the directions? That may help get it looking nice again. Victor's dull gold plating looked an awful lot like gold wax, even though it wasn't.

I have also heard of taking a piece of metal "mosquito bar" or window screen and using that as a patch when you sew up grill cloth like that--from the inside, of course!-- but have not tried it. On my phonographs with grills I always just put new cloth on, but they were not like Credenzas--they were earlier designs that take a glossy silk material without large holes. A Credenza grill with that in it would just look wrong and unnatural.

SittingRabbit
Victor I
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Location: Indiana, PA

Re: Victrola Credenza grill cloth

Post by SittingRabbit »

Yeah, I couldn't help myself on buying them haha! I had a VV-100, but sold it. I have my little one too, but after hearing the credenza, there's no comparison.

Those are neat ideas using screen as a backing. This tear is right where the wood piece goes straight across. I think once I can remove the slats holding in the grill cloth and the tension is off of it, it can be sewn easier before I clean, fold it up, and put it inside the back compartment as part of its history (any tips on pulling the slats out without busting them?). I know, the purist in me wanted to keep the original one there, but the 1920s guy in me says it's worn out and ultra filthy plus this new one looks luxurious to which the credenza is the most luxurious sounding victrola of its day.

I might try your wax idea, although it'd be really nice to get the gold replated, reproducer restored, and the lid pistons rebuilt by someone who knows what they've doing.
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Curt A
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Re: Victrola Credenza grill cloth

Post by Curt A »

The worst part of your gold tonearm is the reproducer. That reproducer is pot metal and has noticeable cracks on the back, which will only get worse over time. Trying to disassemble it to rebuild it might end up disintegrating it, so finding another gold "brass" Orthophonic reproducer that has already been rebuilt would be ideal, although a little pricey since they are very desirable and harder to find than the pot metal ones. Put a want ad on the Trader section and see if someone can help you with that... just a thought. Also, sometimes you can find an HMV version 5A or 5B easier and more reasonably than one labeled Victor.

PS: You can tell a brass backed reproducer from the pot metal version by looking at the writing on the back. The pot metal back has raised lettering, like yours, where the brass back has recessed lettering.
"The phonograph† is not of any commercial value."
Thomas Alva Edison - Comment to his assistant, Samuel Insull.

"No one needs a Victrola XX, a Perfected Graphophone Type G, or whatever you call those noisy things."
My Wife

SittingRabbit
Victor I
Posts: 119
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2020 5:09 pm
Location: Indiana, PA

Re: Victrola Credenza grill cloth

Post by SittingRabbit »

Wow, or never noticed that crack, you're right! Is that from the vibrations overtime from being played so much? I didn't know pot metal would do that.

How pricey are we looking then? Does the brass one and pot metal one sound the same?
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Yup, it's cracked alright!
Yup, it's cracked alright!

VanEpsFan1914
Victor VI
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Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2017 11:39 am
Personal Text: I've got both kinds of music--classical & rag-time.
Location: South Carolina

Re: Victrola Credenza grill cloth

Post by VanEpsFan1914 »

Pot metal has better bass than brass, or so they say. At the present time, what you want on there is a replica. Contact Wyatt Markus (on here as MicaMonster) and talk with him. That old reproducer may have broken parts but it can give up its diaphragm and needle bar to make a new one. If he builds you a reproducer with those old parts (think of it like sending in a car starter as a core) you will have paid quite a bit but still got the best reproducer money can buy, that should outlast the original pot metal one.

As for your motor, are you sure you don't want to swap an original motor back in? Check your data tag for Credenza or Credenza X. The X model is electric. (Or just look on the side & see if there is a hole for a crank LOL.)

I like the other two Victrolas as well--they look like fun.

SittingRabbit
Victor I
Posts: 119
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2020 5:09 pm
Location: Indiana, PA

Re: Victrola Credenza grill cloth

Post by SittingRabbit »

Nope, both are plain Credenza's, both have the crank hole. Yes, I'd like to get the motor on the one restored. Part of me wants to put an original spring motor in this new one with the 60s motor in it, buy the other part of me say that's when motors worked great, it's so quiet that you have to put your ear up to it in order to hear it's faint hum that rotates it at 78 rpm, and ultra dependable. What I'd REALLY like to do is get a spring motor and board to keep for it so that I have all of it's originality to keep with it or to swap out sometimes. Since I've gotten this one, we've literally played around 100 songs already and I'm using up the needle reserve lol.

As for my cracked reproducer, I just looked at my other Credenza and it's reproducer is different. The gold plating is nicer and the lettering are sunken in instead of raised. Is this the brass version?
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