The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

It is currently Sun Oct 25, 2020 3:37 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 7 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Recommended height for 'internal horn' tabletop gramophone ?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:54 pm 
Offline
Victor III
User avatar
floating down stream ...
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:52 pm
Posts: 747
Location: Made it, Ma ! Top of the world !
Should the horn be at, below or above ear level ?

Or does it just depend upon personal preference ?

I guess that there is more of a bass sound the lower it gets ?

:?:
Sun turnin' 'round with graceful motion
We're setting off with soft explosion


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Recommended height for 'internal horn' tabletop gramopho
PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:38 pm 
Offline
Victor VI
User avatar
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 1:17 am
Posts: 3540
Location: Where there's "hamburger ALL OVER the highway"...
Are you standing or sitting?

If the internal horn is at ear height or higher when you're standing, it's going to make it hard to reach the turntable. As for the bass, that's more a function of the horn's length than its position. :geek:

- Bill


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Recommended height for 'internal horn' tabletop gramopho
PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2020 2:35 am 
Offline
Victor III
User avatar
floating down stream ...
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:52 pm
Posts: 747
Location: Made it, Ma ! Top of the world !
Lucius1958 wrote:
Are you standing or sitting?

If the internal horn is at ear height or higher when you're standing, it's going to make it hard to reach the turntable. As for the bass, that's more a function of the horn's length than its position. :geek:

- Bill


Thanks Lucius1958.

I was thinking about while sitting initially - but that's a good point, as I do actually dance about a bit or gaze 'meaningfully' out of the window sometimes (quite often really) depending upon which record is playing.

Bass is associated with horn length - I didn't know that. Thanks again :)
Sun turnin' 'round with graceful motion
We're setting off with soft explosion


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Recommended height for 'internal horn' tabletop gramopho
PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2020 10:06 am 
Offline
Victor IV
User avatar
F. Depero, "Grammofono", 1923.
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:19 am
Posts: 1049
Location: Italy
Lucius1958 wrote:
As for the bass, that's more a function of the horn's length than its position. :geek:

It is actually the opposite, I'm afraid. When a horn is placed in a corner formed by three walls the low frequency response is greatly extended in comparison to the same horn placed at the dihedron of two walls (or a wall and the floor), which in turn delivers an extended low frequency response in comparison to the same horn placed suspended in the center of a wall, which again in turn has an extended low frequency response in comparison to the same horn placed suspended in open space, which is the worst case scenario.

As already said, however, you'll have a hard time handling a tabletop gramophone placed on the floor in a corner.

About its height in reference to the listening ears, all horns are directional to some degree, and more or less all of them have a sonic "focus" point which, unless the horn has complicated shapes (asymmetric, split, re-entrant and so on), is usually approximately in front of its mouth. If you put your ears in the focus point, you should distinctly hear that the sound has more detail, just as if it was being played inside your head, or with a "headphone" effect.

Wether you would like to listen to the gramophone by standing in the focus point or elsewhere is a matter of taste. It tends to be more emotional when the record is fine, but it also tends to enhance defects and hiss of the record when the grooves are only so and so. High frequencies tend to be emphasised, also, which may feel exciting at first but may rapidly lead to listening fatigue. In other words, you have to try to move around the focus point and see what fits your taste better: there is no written rule, and each gramophone model sounds different too.

As a final note, if you place the gramophone on the floor in a corner, the focus point will also approximately be at floor level, which will make hearing quite uncomfortable.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Recommended height for 'internal horn' tabletop gramopho
PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2020 10:57 am 
Offline
Victor III
User avatar
floating down stream ...
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:52 pm
Posts: 747
Location: Made it, Ma ! Top of the world !
Marco Gilardetti wrote:
Lucius1958 wrote:
As for the bass, that's more a function of the horn's length than its position. :geek:

It is actually the opposite, I'm afraid. When a horn is placed in a corner formed by three walls the low frequency response is greatly extended in comparison to the same horn placed at the dihedron of two walls (or a wall and the floor), which in turn delivers an extended low frequency response in comparison to the same horn placed suspended in the center of a wall, which again in turn has an extended low frequency response in comparison to the same horn placed suspended in open space, which is the worst case scenario.

As already said, however, you'll have a hard time handling a tabletop gramophone placed on the floor in a corner.

About its height in reference to the listening ears, all horns are directional to some degree, and more or less all of them have a sonic "focus" point which, unless the horn has complicated shapes (asymmetric, split, re-entrant and so on), is usually approximately in front of its mouth. If you put your ears in the focus point, you should distinctly hear that the sound has more detail, just as if it was being played inside your head, or with a "headphone" effect.

Wether you would like to listen to the gramophone by standing in the focus point or elsewhere is a matter of taste. It tends to be more emotional when the record is fine, but it also tends to enhance defects and hiss of the record when the grooves are only so and so. High frequencies tend to be emphasised, also, which may feel exciting at first but may rapidly lead to listening fatigue. In other words, you have to try to move around the focus point and see what fits your taste better: there is no written rule, and each gramophone model sounds different too.

As a final note, if you place the gramophone on the floor in a corner, the focus point will also approximately be at floor level, which will make hearing quite uncomfortable.


Aha ! Thank you very much Marco Gilardetti.

I really appreciate your advice and will bear in mind particularly: 'you have to try to move around the focus point and see what fits your taste better: there is no written rule, and each gramophone model sounds different too.'.

Great stuff ! :)
Sun turnin' 'round with graceful motion
We're setting off with soft explosion


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Recommended height for 'internal horn' tabletop gramopho
PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2020 11:11 am 
Offline
Victor IV
User avatar
Keep'em well oiled
Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:51 am
Posts: 1017
Location: Madrid, Spain
A nice way to listen to a tabletop gramophone is when placing it at one end of a dinner table, and sitting at another place at the table, in front of the machine horn. The table acts as the reflecting baffle, and the sound conveyed to you it's most pleasing.
Inigo


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Recommended height for 'internal horn' tabletop gramopho
PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2020 11:28 am 
Offline
Victor IV
User avatar
F. Depero, "Grammofono", 1923.
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:19 am
Posts: 1049
Location: Italy
Inigo wrote:
A nice way to listen to a tabletop gramophone is when placing it at one end of a dinner table, and sitting at another place at the table, in front of the machine horn. The table acts as the reflecting baffle, and the sound conveyed to you it's most pleasing.


Suppose you push the dinner table against the walls, and then you have created an artificial corner! ;)


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 7 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Content © 2009-2020 by The Talking Machine Forum and the respective posters.
Americanized by Maël Soucaze.