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 Post subject: Re: HMV motor not revolving: spring issue?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2020 1:55 pm 
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Victor Jr
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JerryVan wrote:
I believe you've figured it out! The only danger was working on the governor while the spring is still wound, but you managed to set things right without a "runaway" motor. You may find that by moving the governor over as you did, the speed indicator my now be off a bit. Or, perhaps it will now be more accurate, since the governor seems to have slipped over into an incorrect location, which you have now remedied. Suffice to say, it may be different than it was before. :) Just the same, you did the right thing. As for your English, it's better than that of a lot of Americans :) .


Too kind of you saying that! :)

Luckily, and despite my inexperience, these motors appear to me like logical and friendly mechanical toys, unlike those obtuse digital devices which die inesorably with an "unknown error" or "general system failure" message (what irritates me immensely! :evil: ).


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 Post subject: Re: HMV motor not revolving: spring issue?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2020 2:59 pm 
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VTLA
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Paolo, now that you have identified the issue, I would suggest to let the motor wind down completely and then check the governor that you repositioned "under pressure" is really in the best position to the worm gear. Also, it should only have nearly unnoticeable play between the two cylindrical spacers/bushings. That way it can run with minimal friction and minimal wear on the gears. Always do work like this with the springs completely wound down!

Andreas


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 Post subject: Re: HMV motor not revolving: spring issue?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2020 4:18 pm 
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Victor Jr
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alang wrote:
Paolo, now that you have identified the issue, I would suggest to let the motor wind down completely and then check the governor that you repositioned "under pressure" is really in the best position to the worm gear. Also, it should only have nearly unnoticeable play between the two cylindrical spacers/bushings. That way it can run with minimal friction and minimal wear on the gears. Always do work like this with the springs completely wound down!

Andreas


Hello Andreas, your advice is much appreciated; I'll follow it and come back here should any new issue arise.


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 Post subject: Re: HMV motor not revolving: spring issue?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2020 6:28 pm 
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Victor IV
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Usually these modern hmv motors have three features to help adjusting it in a fixed position.
The tt spindle has a notch where the set screw of the spindle gear must be positioned.
The governor axis also has a notch where the set screw of the governor fixed collar set screw must be positioned.
Finally, one of the governor bushings, the one which resists the pushing of the spindle gear, has a channel in the middle, where the set screw must be placed. The opposite bushing is plain, so this is the one with which you play to adjust a minimum gap for the governor.
All these things are designed with the aim to install the governor and the spindle gear in their correct positions.
With these parts correctly installed in their fixed positions, there should not be any problem running the motor correctly...
Inigo


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 Post subject: Re: HMV motor not revolving: spring issue?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2020 4:23 pm 
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Victor Jr
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Inigo wrote:
Usually these modern hmv motors have three features to help adjusting it in a fixed position.
The tt spindle has a notch where the set screw of the spindle gear must be positioned.
The governor axis also has a notch where the set screw of the governor fixed collar set screw must be positioned.
Finally, one of the governor bushings, the one which resists the pushing of the spindle gear, has a channel in the middle, where the set screw must be placed. The opposite bushing is plain, so this is the one with which you play to adjust a minimum gap for the governor.
All these things are designed with the aim to install the governor and the spindle gear in their correct positions.
With these parts correctly installed in their fixed positions, there should not be any problem running the motor correctly...


Good evening Inigo, thank you for the detailed explanation. I'm away and cannot look at the motor right now but I'll come back to it at soonest. I suppose I should dismantle the governor shaft and bushing to see these notch and channel, am I right?


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 Post subject: Re: HMV motor not revolving: spring issue?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2020 2:00 pm 
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Victor Jr
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Paolo_MK68 wrote:
Inigo wrote:
Usually these modern hmv motors have three features to help adjusting it in a fixed position.
The tt spindle has a notch where the set screw of the spindle gear must be positioned.
The governor axis also has a notch where the set screw of the governor fixed collar set screw must be positioned.
Finally, one of the governor bushings, the one which resists the pushing of the spindle gear, has a channel in the middle, where the set screw must be placed. The opposite bushing is plain, so this is the one with which you play to adjust a minimum gap for the governor.
All these things are designed with the aim to install the governor and the spindle gear in their correct positions.
With these parts correctly installed in their fixed positions, there should not be any problem running the motor correctly...


Good evening Inigo, thank you for the detailed explanation. I'm away and cannot look at the motor right now but I'll come back to it at soonest. I suppose I should dismantle the governor shaft and bushing to see these notch and channel, am I right?


Good evening,

following your advice I double checked the position of the governor shaft. I did not dismantle completely the mechanism, but I noticed that on the left bearing there's something like a "reference line": if my understanding is correct, the bearing should be moved until the reference line almost touch the spacer between the two motor motor plates, therefore ensuring that the governor shaft is properly placed. I proceeded like this and now the motor appears to pick up speed and spin regularly. I re-assembled the motor on the board and also tried to "fine tune" the turntable speed so to have it spinning at 78 rpm when the speed regulator lever is in the middle position of the index plate. It was a hit and miss process moving by minimal increment the speed regulator assembly along its slotted holes, tightening the screw, checking the speed, and then all over again until I reached the position where the nominal 78 RPM corresponded (more or less :mrgreen: ) to the middle position of the lever. That's all!

By the way: somewhere in the web I found a printable image to arrange a stroboscopic disc for european 50 Hz current and so I glued it to a worn-out record only to realize that I have not a single spare incandescent bulb light to use with it after having switched to led and other low consumption lights! Everywhere I read that the strobe discs should be used only with incandescent bulb light, but since it was not feasible I turned to a quality led torch I use for my daily job: to my surprise the stroboscopic image appeared neat and sharp when the motor speed should have reached 78 RPM!
Not totally convinced I picked up a record whose tune I know the pitch of, and I played along it at the piano: even with some notes being minimally out of tune, I could almost follow the melody at the keyboard with more than acceptable results, hence I concluded that the gramophone plays at a correct speed. So far, so good...

Thanks for all your hints!


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 Post subject: Re: HMV motor not revolving: spring issue?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 4:49 pm 
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Victor IV
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Keep'em well oiled
Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:51 am
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Location: Madrid, Spain
Glad you could adjust the motor to run properly... You'll enjoy that machine. HMV portables are very good looking sand sound so well... Especially the 102 and 101.
Inigo


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