Restoring a Spring - 'Take 2'

Share your phonograph repair & restoration techniques here
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poodling around
Victor V
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Re: Restoring a Spring - 'Take 2'

Post by poodling around »

Okay, so I decided to repair the spring and all was going well until I realised that my spring needs repairing at the centre end and not the outer end.

All the you tube video's show the outer end being repaired - which seems much easier as accessing the inner part is difficult as it is tightly coiled.

So how do I approach this ?

I can only think that the entire spring needs straightening out first to enable access to the inner spring end and re-coiling when the repair hole is made ?

Please let me know how this should be done .................

JerryVan
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Re: Restoring a Spring - 'Take 2'

Post by JerryVan »

It ain't easy. I heat the first 1" - 1-½" of the inner curl to red hot, then allow it to cool. Be careful to keep the heat away from too much of the inner coils! I then grab the inner end with a good pair of needle nose pliers and peel it out of the center. Then, force a piece of hard dowel into the curl, (where the spring arbor would normally go), so that I can support the spring end. Next, I drill the two holes that I'll connect with a file, to form the "pear shaped hole". Once that's done, I force the inner curl back into place, being careful to reshape the inner end to bring it back round and to make it lay flat and even with the rest of the spring. It takes some force and persuasion and seems abusive, but it works. In the long run, it's easier to buy a new spring, but this is ultimately cheaper and faster. And besides, the spring is already junk, what have you got to lose?

UPDATE: I just looked at your earlier photos. Forget most of what I said above. Just buy a new spring...

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poodling around
Victor V
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Re: Restoring a Spring - 'Take 2'

Post by poodling around »

JerryVan wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 3:30 pm It ain't easy. I heat the first 1" - 1-½" of the inner curl to red hot, then allow it to cool. Be careful to keep the heat away from too much of the inner coils! I then grab the inner end with a good pair of needle nose pliers and peel it out of the center. Then, force a piece of hard dowel into the curl, (where the spring arbor would normally go), so that I can support the spring end. Next, I drill the two holes that I'll connect with a file, to form the "pear shaped hole". Once that's done, I force the inner curl back into place, being careful to reshape the inner end to bring it back round and to make it lay flat and even with the rest of the spring. It takes some force and persuasion and seems abusive, but it works. In the long run, it's easier to buy a new spring, but this is ultimately cheaper and faster. And besides, the spring is already junk, what have you got to lose?

UPDATE: I just looked at your earlier photos. Forget most of what I said above. Just buy a new spring...
Thanks JerryVan.

Well, I will give it a go anyway tomorrow and see what happens. As you say, it is just junk presently anyway.

Then ........................ I will probably just buy a new spring .........

JerryVan
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Re: Restoring a Spring - 'Take 2'

Post by JerryVan »

poodling around wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 3:44 pm
JerryVan wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 3:30 pm It ain't easy. I heat the first 1" - 1-½" of the inner curl to red hot, then allow it to cool. Be careful to keep the heat away from too much of the inner coils! I then grab the inner end with a good pair of needle nose pliers and peel it out of the center. Then, force a piece of hard dowel into the curl, (where the spring arbor would normally go), so that I can support the spring end. Next, I drill the two holes that I'll connect with a file, to form the "pear shaped hole". Once that's done, I force the inner curl back into place, being careful to reshape the inner end to bring it back round and to make it lay flat and even with the rest of the spring. It takes some force and persuasion and seems abusive, but it works. In the long run, it's easier to buy a new spring, but this is ultimately cheaper and faster. And besides, the spring is already junk, what have you got to lose?

UPDATE: I just looked at your earlier photos. Forget most of what I said above. Just buy a new spring...
Thanks JerryVan.

Well, I will give it a go anyway tomorrow and see what happens. As you say, it is just junk presently anyway.

Then ........................ I will probably just buy a new spring .........
Excellent choice. You're to be commended for trying! Heat at least 2" of the inner end to red hot, then allow to cool. Drill and shape the hole, then work the spring to curl it inwards, so that it wraps snuggly around the shaft.

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poodling around
Victor V
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Re: Restoring a Spring - 'Take 2'

Post by poodling around »

JerryVan wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 3:56 pm
poodling around wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 3:44 pm
JerryVan wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 3:30 pm It ain't easy. I heat the first 1" - 1-½" of the inner curl to red hot, then allow it to cool. Be careful to keep the heat away from too much of the inner coils! I then grab the inner end with a good pair of needle nose pliers and peel it out of the center. Then, force a piece of hard dowel into the curl, (where the spring arbor would normally go), so that I can support the spring end. Next, I drill the two holes that I'll connect with a file, to form the "pear shaped hole". Once that's done, I force the inner curl back into place, being careful to reshape the inner end to bring it back round and to make it lay flat and even with the rest of the spring. It takes some force and persuasion and seems abusive, but it works. In the long run, it's easier to buy a new spring, but this is ultimately cheaper and faster. And besides, the spring is already junk, what have you got to lose?

UPDATE: I just looked at your earlier photos. Forget most of what I said above. Just buy a new spring...
Thanks JerryVan.

Well, I will give it a go anyway tomorrow and see what happens. As you say, it is just junk presently anyway.

Then ........................ I will probably just buy a new spring .........
Excellent choice. You're to be commended for trying! Heat at least 2" of the inner end to red hot, then allow to cool. Drill and shape the hole, then work the spring to curl it inwards, so that it wraps snuggly around the shaft.
Will do - thanks - and I can't wait to give it a go tomorrow morning !

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Victor V
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Re: Restoring a Spring - 'Take 2'

Post by poodling around »

Well, the spring was tempered - I was quite surprised at how the metal changed colour before my very eyes.

Then a hole made - which in my very inexperienced opinion looks okay ?

There were some marks stamped onto the other (outer) end and wonder if anyone knows what they mean ? A date perhaps ? (April 1933 ?) - Maybe the length ? (4 and a third metres - about 13 feet ?). The portable gramophone is German so I assume the spring was made there).

Tomorrow: re-fitting the spring inside it's canister.
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JerryVan
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Re: Restoring a Spring - 'Take 2'

Post by JerryVan »

Looks like great progress! I would trim away some of the excess length, between the break and your new hole, and maybe round off the end a bit . Also, put a tighter curl on the spring end, so that it wraps snuggly around the shaft when you reassemble.

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Victor V
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Re: Restoring a Spring - 'Take 2'

Post by poodling around »

JerryVan wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 11:52 am Looks like great progress! I would trim away some of the excess length, between the break and your new hole, and maybe round off the end a bit . Also, put a tighter curl on the spring end, so that it wraps snuggly around the shaft when you reassemble.
Thanks again JerryVan, your advice / experience is really appreciated.

I will do as you suggest before re-installing the spring tomorrow morning.

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Victor V
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Re: Restoring a Spring - 'Take 2'

Post by poodling around »

JerryVan wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 11:52 am Looks like great progress! I would trim away some of the excess length, between the break and your new hole, and maybe round off the end a bit . Also, put a tighter curl on the spring end, so that it wraps snuggly around the shaft when you reassemble.
Well, I have nothing but good news !!!!!!!

I made a new hole after re-tempering (first attempt failed).

It has taken me days to find my metal sheet nibblers - but last night I found them.

So, this morning I nibbled happily away, put the spring back and put the motor back together. I can hardly believe it myself but it actually works !

The most difficult part was trying to create a tighter curl. In fact I found it impossible. So, I am winding the spring a little more every so often in the hope that it will eventually 'take on the correct shape'.

Oh, and it rained today but I just couldn't wait.

Thank you so very much for your help JerryVan, gramophoneshane and soundgen.

I have three other gramophones which need their springs mending and I now feel confident to have a go.

Another Happy ending ! :)
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poodling around
Victor V
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Re: Restoring a Spring - 'Take 2'

Post by poodling around »

Just a quick, final up-date.

I mentioned earlier that 'The most difficult part was trying to create a tighter curl.'.

I have now found a simple, effective way of creating a good inner curl. Simply using an old broom handle with a nail driven through attached to the inner spring hole. Then, with the spring in a vice (and a few inches towards the middle end to 'play with'), twisting that end tight.

Please bear in mind that I understand many people have been seriously injured changing springs, so I can never suggest that anyone else tries. I simply hope that this thread and my 'personal journey' has been as interesting to others as it has been to me.
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