Restoring a Spring - 'Take 2'

[poodling around]

So, into the garden I happily went and prepared to remove the canister top.

As you can see from one of the photo's, I used an inserted brass screwed rod, a plastic bin (I just happened to have hanging around) and a lump of sandstone (Which actually broke during the experiment).

The idea was to throw the canister with rod attached into the bin, onto the sandstone (like a grenade) and quickly put the lid on in case the deadly spring emerged. It worked after five throws. Fortunately the cog seems undamaged and the case still seems perfectly round.

The inside is shown in the second photo. I assume the following (but may be wrong):

1. The spring seems unbroken and ready to re-connect to the 'cylindrical metal thing'.

2. When the spring is connected, the way it works is that it simply pushes the 'Cylindrical metal thing' which ultimately turns the motor and turntable. They just 'butt up' against each other and work through friction.

If this is correct then I am puzzled about exactly where the 'Cylindrical metal thing' should be positioned on the 'rod'.

In the photograph, should it be where it is or should it be moved to where the arrow points, over the raised round area ?

I guess it should be over the raised area, as this would stop the C.M.T. rotating around the rod (It wouldn't rotate the actual rod otherwise ?).

(Oh, the 'Cylindrical Metal Thing (C.M.T.) may be on the rod back-to-front in the photographs).

Thank you for your help with this mini project.

[gramophoneshane]

Haven't seen this same setup that I recall but I assume the tab off the cylinder hooks into the spring and the slit in the cylinder is where the stud on the gear rod sits. That would allow the whole cylinder to move up and down on the rod with the spring still attached to the cylinder

[poodling around]

Haven't seen this same setup that I recall but I assume the tab off the cylinder hooks into the spring and the slit in the cylinder is where the stud on the gear rod sits. That would allow the whole cylinder to move up and down on the rod with the spring still attached to the cylinder

Very good, I will have another look tonight to see how easily this approach can be achieved - and maybe if it works !

Great stuff ...................... back later then.

[gramophoneshane]

Is this picture the spring in the barrel?

Because if it is, then it looks broken to me.
The end of the spring at the centre should have a hole for the tab on the cylinder to hook into.
That's unless the cylinder is actually the broken off end of the spring.

Probably best to clean the cylinder and gear with rod so you can see them a little more clearly.
Is there a hole near the end of the spring in the centre?

[poodling around]

Is this picture the spring in the barrel?

Because if it is, then it looks broken to me.
The end of the spring at the centre should have a hole for the tab on the cylinder to hook into.
That's unless the cylinder is actually the broken off end of the spring.

Probably best to clean the cylinder and gear with rod so you can see them a little more clearly.
Is there a hole near the end of the spring in the centre?

Interesting, it does look broken as you say. I will take a closer photo.

If there is a bit missing it will be in the bin so I will have a look.

And I will clean the cylinder and gear and look to see if there is a hole near the end of the spring.

Thanks for you help gramophoneshane.

[poodling around]

Nothing in the bin and no indications on the other bits.

Does this spring end look broken I wonder ?

[poodling around]

Ah ha ! I have just looked at ebay and a spare spring I bought for a garrard motor and conclude that this spring is indeed broken.

All other springs 'fold into the centre' making it easier to attach. They are not entirely around the edge.

Some have holes to use to attach in the centre.

So I will have to repair / replace.

I will have a long think then.

[gramophoneshane]

Yes, it's definitely broken.
Personally, I'd buy a replacement spring.
While it is possible to repair your spring, I think it's been shortened too much to be worth while.
My experience has been when you lose more than about an inch of spring at the centre and you need to heat and drill it to repair, the spring loses a lot of power and probably will no longer play one side of the record, being a single spring motor.
Repairing the outer end of a spring is far more successful, again provided you don't lose too much length.

Then again, it doesn't hurt to try.
It gives you a chance to more accurately measure the spring so you know what to order, and repairing the spring gives you some practice doing a repair, and to put/pull the spring in and out of the barrel.

[poodling around]

Yes, it's definitely broken.
Personally, I'd buy a replacement spring.
While it is possible to repair your spring, I think it's been shortened too much to be worth while.
My experience has been when you lose more than about an inch of spring at the centre and you need to heat and drill it to repair, the spring loses a lot of power and probably will no longer play one side of the record, being a single spring motor.
Repairing the outer end of a spring is far more successful, again provided you don't lose too much length.

Then again, it doesn't hurt to try.
It gives you a chance to more accurately measure the spring so you know what to order, and repairing the spring gives you some practice doing a repair, and to put/pull the spring in and out of the barrel.

Great advice !

I actually came across what maybe is a very good youtube video showing how to repair a broken spring so I will follow his example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfSjuDJXSc0

I need to buy a 'blow torch' and small metal file' and of course remove the spring. Which I will try to do today. Probably using the plastic bin again. Or maybe, as you say, simply buy a new one.

Thanks for all your help gramophoneshane - I will up-date this thread as things progress.

Happy days.

[poodling around]

It was such a lovely, warm, sunny, 'Spring day' (get it ? ).

Happily now done !

It is about 8 feet long and one inch wide. So, because it was broken (the broken bit no-where to be found) I assume it was about 9 feet long when installed as this is a German portable gramophone.

Now, the question is, do I repair or replace ? I don't mind repairing it if it just means it will need winding up more often. On the other hand maybe a new one would be better ?

Any further advice would be really appreciated.