Help With Stabilizing Rare Brown Wax Cylinder

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FellowCollector
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Help With Stabilizing Rare Brown Wax Cylinder

Post by FellowCollector »

I have a fairly rare brown wax cylinder by Dan W. Quinn that I would like to stabilize and am seeking your advice on how best to do it.

The cylinder has 2 small very tight cracks on each end.

I'm thinking that VERY CAREFULLY and in a shallow manner heating/melting the edges of the cracks inside the core will stabilize both cracks. BUT...I'm concerned that doing so will create a teeny tiny "valley" of melted brown wax at the crack sites with two raised peaks on each side of the "valley" thus resulting in a brown wax cylinder core that no longer has the perfectly smooth circular surface that was there originally. And since the brown wax is already ancient and fragile I would not want to go inside and try to carve out any small peaks created by the soldering iron work.

I'm also wondering whether a very thin layer of epoxy or wood glue would stabilize the cracks. But the cracks are very tight and it's doubtful that much if any glue would penetrate into the cracks. And, again, therein lies the problem of making a slightly imperfect core from adding the glue or epoxy. I'm not interested in sending the cylinder out to Dr. Kanchalian or really anyone else for repairs. I'd rather listen to discourse from folks who may have done this with success on their own or anyone who has some meaningful advice if either of my ideas are irrational.

I would like to play the cylinder and record it digitally but I want to stabilize the cylinder first.

Thanks, in advance, for any ideas.
Doug

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Re: Help With Stabilizing Rare Brown Wax Cylinder

Post by Jerry B. »

The Record Doctor, Mike Kanchellan (sp???) repairs cracked cylinders. Anyone have his contact info?
Jerry B.

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Re: Help With Stabilizing Rare Brown Wax Cylinder

Post by martinola »

Hi Doug.

I've done a few "hail mary" repairs on my cylinders. They were nothing worth spending money on, but I did want to transfer. If you're OK with the whole thing possibly coming to pieces in your hands or damaging your stylus, then I'd say go for it. Get a pair of optivisors or other good magnifier and a strong light so you can see what you're doing. If the cracks are minor and tight when on the mandrel, I'd transfer first and forget about the more invasive approach. I'd get everything set up with a good cylinder beforehand (ie: speed adjusted - either 144 or 120 rpm and rough audio level - brown wax will be much quieter than black wax). Then transfer once. There are enough variables that only the person doing the work will be able to decide the proper approach. Good luck.

Martin

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Re: Help With Stabilizing Rare Brown Wax Cylinder

Post by FellowCollector »

Thank you for your responses Jerry and Martin. That makes sense, Martin. I will try my best to not break the cylinder and try playing it as is and, with any luck, make a decent digital copy. I don't have any electrical recorder that plugs into a model C reproducer so simply recording from the horn will have to do. There will be light clicks as the reproducer stylus crosses the cracks but oh well. :)

Doug

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Re: Help With Stabilizing Rare Brown Wax Cylinder

Post by Curt A »

The problem with any glue is that the cylinder is made of wax, which most things don't adhere to. As a more radical approach, you might try cutting a paper clip into short pieces long enough to bridge the crack and heating them enough to bury them into the wax. I used this method before, BUT it is a crap shoot, so I would suggest practicing on an old worthless or broken cylinder before attempting this. Also, I found that WeldBond glue would stick to black wax cylinders, but never tried it on brown wax. There should be enough old moldy brown wax cylinders around to experiment with.

Just putting them on a mandrel without breaking them might be a challenge if cracked beforehand.
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Re: Help With Stabilizing Rare Brown Wax Cylinder

Post by alang »

One year at the Union show I spent probably a couple hours watching Dr. Kanchalian do his magic. He was very nice and explained what he was doing. In your case where you only have tiny starting cracks I would use his method of stabilizing them from the inside with small staples. What he did was to warm the staple a little bit over a candle, just enough that it would melt a little bit into the wax, but not too hot that it would just melt through. I would probable try on a damaged cylinder first a few times before touching your valuable cylinder.

Good luck
Andreas

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Re: Help With Stabilizing Rare Brown Wax Cylinder

Post by Roaring20s »

alang wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 6:52 pm One year at the Union show I spent probably a couple hours watching Dr. Kanchalian do his magic. He was very nice and explained what he was doing. In your case where you only have tiny starting cracks I would use his method of stabilizing them from the inside with small staples. What he did was to warm the staple a little bit over a candle, just enough that it would melt a little bit into the wax, but not too hot that it would just melt through. I would probable try on a damaged cylinder first a few times before touching your valuable cylinder.

Good luck
Andreas
This is what I would try. I did it on the rim to hold the splits from spreading apart. While adding support to the inside will hide the work done, it's harder to work in that space. Practice on some junk and then just do it. You will not be able to enjoy it if it cracks in two. :coffee:

James.

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Re: Help With Stabilizing Rare Brown Wax Cylinder

Post by FellowCollector »

Thanks for the additional comments! Several years ago I had an Edison Concert (brown wax) cylinder with a crack almost all the way through that I wanted to see if I could repair. Per Andreas' helpful comments, I had also read somewhere else back around that time about using shortened heated staples to bridge and stabilize the crack on the inside in brown wax cylinders thereby preventing any further separation. As we know, the brown wax "walls" of a Concert/Grand cylinder are considerably thicker than those of a standard size brown wax cylinder so it was with less trepidation that I ventured forward with this concept. And it actually worked quite well. The Dr. Kanchalian method of heating the staples carefully under a candle flame makes more sense than how I did it. But my method actually worked okay as well. What I did what to position normal temperature shortened staples into position over the crack and then touch the middle of each staple with the tip of a heated soldering iron. As soon as I could see the staple begin to lower down into the brown wax I removed the soldering iron. If the staple stopped short of the desired depth I would simply touch the staple again with the tip of the soldering iron until the desired depth was met. I did try a practice run on a completely broken brown wax Concert cylinder and when it worked I said "Hey, I can DO this I think!". The sad part of all of this is that no matter how nicely the repair is done you will still hear a click or tick as it plays. But I guess that's better than not hearing it all. The thinner walls on a standard size wax cylinder is my concern but practicing (and hopefully, success!) on a junk cylinder would provide the assurance I need to proceed. ;)

Doug

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