My first Victrola two spring motor rebuild and a few questions

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dale h
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My first Victrola two spring motor rebuild and a few questions

Post by dale h »

I was recently given a VV-XI #521783 with a request from the original owner's family that I try to save it. A family member tried his hand at a repair/restoration but realized he was in over his head and gave up. It was delivered to me partially disassembled and is in pretty sad shape. A sane man would have salvaged a few parts and tossed the rest into a dumpster, but I don't recall the last time someone accused me of being sane so I said I would give it a shot.

With the help of some Youtube videos and posts on this site, I just completed tearing down, cleaning, and re-assembling the motor and it appears to be running fine. Virtually silent, except for a slight rubbing sound which I traced to the speed indicator.

Now for the questions:

I put a drop or two of oil on the leather pad for the speed indicator. Should I have used more? Or is it more likely that the leather is too hard and should be replaced? The sound is really not very loud and may be inaudible once the motor is back in the case.

Most of the time the spring barrel rotates slightly slower than the main drive gear. This makes sense if both springs are uncoiling together, which I assume is as it should be. Sometimes, however, the barrel speeds up to match the rotation on the drive gear, or else stops altogether, indicating only one spring is uncoiling at a time. The transitions and smooth with no sound, just gradually slowing down or speeding up. Is this normal, or is this something that needs to be addressed?

Once the motor was assembled and running, I noticed that the spring clip that holds the top of the barrel in place was not fully seated all the way around. Apparently, I did not have all of the spring coils all the way down in the barrel before I put the top on. It hasn't shown any signs of coming loose, but it bothers me just the same. I have been thinking of using a large C clamp to force the top and spring into place. Any other suggestions that don't involve removing the springs and starting over?

Thanks in advance for any help.

Dale H

JerryVan
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Re: My first Victrola two spring motor rebuild and a few questions

Post by JerryVan »

dale h wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 3:52 pm I was recently given a VV-XI #521783 with a request from the original owner's family that I try to save it. A family member tried his hand at a repair/restoration but realized he was in over his head and gave up. It was delivered to me partially disassembled and is in pretty sad shape. A sane man would have salvaged a few parts and tossed the rest into a dumpster, but I don't recall the last time someone accused me of being sane so I said I would give it a shot.

With the help of some Youtube videos and posts on this site, I just completed tearing down, cleaning, and re-assembling the motor and it appears to be running fine. Virtually silent, except for a slight rubbing sound which I traced to the speed indicator.

Now for the questions:

I put a drop or two of oil on the leather pad for the speed indicator. Should I have used more? Or is it more likely that the leather is too hard and should be replaced? The sound is really not very loud and may be inaudible once the motor is back in the case.

Most of the time the spring barrel rotates slightly slower than the main drive gear. This makes sense if both springs are uncoiling together, which I assume is as it should be. Sometimes, however, the barrel speeds up to match the rotation on the drive gear, or else stops altogether, indicating only one spring is uncoiling at a time. The transitions and smooth with no sound, just gradually slowing down or speeding up. Is this normal, or is this something that needs to be addressed?

Once the motor was assembled and running, I noticed that the spring clip that holds the top of the barrel in place was not fully seated all the way around. Apparently, I did not have all of the spring coils all the way down in the barrel before I put the top on. It hasn't shown any signs of coming loose, but it bothers me just the same. I have been thinking of using a large C clamp to force the top and spring into place. Any other suggestions that don't involve removing the springs and starting over?

Thanks in advance for any help.

Dale H
Dale,

Sounds as if you're doing some good work. The action of the spring barrels as you describe it, is totally normal. What you don't want to hear is a "thump", which indicates a sticking spring that needs better cleaning and proper greasing. (They don't need to be silent, just no loud thumping.)

Using a C-clamp as you suggest would be fine, as long as you don't get carried away with it. It should only need light pressure.

The friction pad on the speed indicator and speed control arm can get hard and glazed with old dried up oil. Try scuffing the surface of the leather pad with coarse sandpaper, (maybe 100 grit), to remove the glaze and maybe expose some "fresh" leather. Then add a drop of oil to the scuffed surface and allow it drink in. You could cut a narrow strip of sandpaper and place it between the leather and the friction disc. While applying light pressure to the leather, pull the strip past it, using the friction disc as a support for the paper. This will assure a flat surface is dressed on the leather and keep it parallel to the face of the friction disc.

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Inigo
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Re: My first Victrola two spring motor rebuild and a few questions

Post by Inigo »

Don't be too insistent on scuffing.... You only need to scuff the leather pad a bit, just to make it softer. Wet it in oil. The issue of being perfectly flat is not so important.... for proper action the pad only needs to touch the brass disc, there is no need for it to be a perfect flat full contact. The governor speed and the disc pressure auto-regulates the pad action itself.... Of course, of the leather pad is old and hard out of order beyond hope, it is better to replace it. But this is a delicate matter...
Inigo

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Re: My first Victrola two spring motor rebuild and a few questions

Post by JerryVan »

Inigo wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 4:21 am Don't be too insistent on scuffing.... You only need to scuff the leather pad a bit, just to make it softer. Wet it in oil. The issue of being perfectly flat is not so important.... for proper action the pad only needs to touch the brass disc, there is no need for it to be a perfect flat full contact. The governor speed and the disc pressure auto-regulates the pad action itself.... Of course, of the leather pad is old and hard out of order beyond hope, it is better to replace it. But this is a delicate matter...
Yes, as Iningo states, don't get too overzealous in your scuffing. No need to actually shorten the leather appreciably. As to the surfaces being parallel, probably not essential, just my personal obsession with precision that's probably overkill. But, right now, the surfaces will be parallel and sanding as I described will assure that your sanding covers all of the friction surface of the leather... (there I go again :roll: )

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Inigo
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Re: My first Victrola two spring motor rebuild and a few questions

Post by Inigo »

Did any motors have a felt pad instead of leather? I bet I've seen that, but don't remember where... :roll: maybe a Thorens or Garrard motor... :?: Or hmv!
Inigo

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Re: My first Victrola two spring motor rebuild and a few questions

Post by JerryVan »

Inigo wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 10:18 am Did any motors have a felt pad instead of leather? I bet I've seen that, but don't remember where... :roll: maybe a Thorens or Garrard motor... :?: Or hmv!
Yes, many used felt. Edison for one.

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Re: My first Victrola two spring motor rebuild and a few questions

Post by Inigo »

:) Thanks!
Inigo

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Re: My first Victrola two spring motor rebuild and a few questions

Post by Marco Gilardetti »

dale h wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 3:52 pmthe barrel speeds up to match the rotation on the drive gear, or else stops altogether, indicating only one spring is uncoiling at a time.
As already written by Jerry, this is absolutely normal. Only in the ideal case in which the two coils would be perfectly matched in every point of their entire length, then they would unroll together at the same speed. This is never the case with real objects: the difference in speed accounts for the slight difference in strength that each coil has in each section, in relation to the corresponding section of the other coil.

dale h
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Re: My first Victrola two spring motor rebuild and a few questions

Post by dale h »

Thanks for all the replies, guys!

I will take another look at the indicator pad and give it a little more attention.

In the meantime, I have started on the case. Several glue joints have failed and there are many scuffs, dings, and loose veneer. Need to strip it down and refinish it. Then there are the rest of the mechanicals.

Thanks again.

Dale H

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