Needles?

[Inigo]

I use almost exclusively the soft tone steel needles bought from member soundgen, in uk, very good and pleasant, and my self-made triangular bamboo needles. I'm lately experimenting with the triangular bamboos to which I grind manually a fine conical point. If the bamboo is hard, dry and straight, these also work well, despite not having the outer hard skin of the bamboo.
Actually it's easy to make your own triangular bamboo needles. You cut the bamboo stick in small cylinders of 1" or so, then with a sharp blade cutter, you simply press down on the bamboo cylinder, along the vertical direction, with the cutter at 60 degrees to the cylinder surface, and it suddenly makes the cut. You continue with more cuts, then extracting the triangular needles. You need, though, a special bamboo cutter for making the slanted point.
With time and experience you eventually learn to distinguish which types of records are kind to be played with Bamboo and which don't...

[Lah Ca]

Tangent to the topics of which needles for what purposes and how many uses per is the question of where to buy them in bulk.

There is also the question of quality. The supply of loud needles that came with my A-V is inconsistent. Every 5th or 6th needle has its tip machined out of round and needs to be tossed.

There is shipping. I live in Canada and there is seemingly no easy or inexpensive way to ship things here - particularly if a vendor/hobbyist lives in a rural area not well served by major couriers. USPS is reliable and speedy to the Canadian border, but then all bets are off. I have a postal drop service in Point Roberts, WA, that I used to use, but this is not really an option at the moment.

What options exist for purchasing steel needles? Recommended vendors?

What options exist for buying fibre needles? Recommended vendors?

[Marco Gilardetti]

Prorated out from the microscopic area of contact the weight was massive at the per square inch level. The drag against the record at this weight produced heat which melted the surface of the record to the depth of a molecule or so. The stylus behaved somewhat like an ice skate which slides on the water its friction on the ice momentarily produces. There was no visible damage to the record because of this. A misaligned cartridge, however, appeared to cause micro fractures and tears in the vinyl.

As Galileo Galilei already pointed out in the XVI century, things don't work the same way at microscopic and macroscopic scale, but apparently Hi-Fi magazines still have problems at dealing with this simple fact. The result is, as already addressed in other conversations on this board, that the "massive" weight at contact point which appears so massive for us macroscopic beings, is not so "massive" when we deal with a microscopic scale. The fact itself that one molecule was melted is speculation, as basically nothing happens if only one molecule is melted. And indeed microscopic inspection proved that nothing happened.

Same with shellac records. I never noticed any needle or record which was even remotely more lukewarm after having being played.

The needle card you posted in the picture only say that they are "air cushioned", there's no reference to any supposed cooling effect (and even in case, it was just advertising material, with no real meaning).

Coming to purchase of contemporary steel needles, most European enthusiasts (the writer included) buy and swear about those sold by member Soundgen. Of course buyng them from overseas would imply dealing with duties (well, since the brexit thing duties are implied even within Europe, but let's skip this point) and a trans-continental shipping. Best would be if you could devise a reliable provider in the US, which in turn is warmly recommended by a huge number of experienced enthusiasts. However, I may be wrong but I have the impression that Americans - speaking in general - don't care about the tone grade of the needles as much as we Europeans do by long tradition.

[JerryVan]

Prorated out from the microscopic area of contact the weight was massive at the per square inch level. The drag against the record at this weight produced heat which melted the surface of the record to the depth of a molecule or so. The stylus behaved somewhat like an ice skate which slides on the water its friction on the ice momentarily produces. There was no visible damage to the record because of this. A misaligned cartridge, however, appeared to cause micro fractures and tears in the vinyl.

As Galileo Galilei already pointed out in the XVI century, things don't work the same way at microscopic and macroscopic scale, but apparently Hi-Fi magazines still have problems at dealing with this simple fact. The result is, as already addressed in other conversations on this board, that the "massive" weight at contact point which appears so massive for us macroscopic beings, is not so "massive" when we deal with a microscopic scale. The fact itself that one molecule was melted is speculation, as basically nothing happens if only one molecule is melted. And indeed microscopic inspection proved that nothing happened.

Same with shellac records. I never noticed any needle or record which was even remotely more lukewarm after having being played.

The needle card you posted in the picture only say that they are "air cushioned", there's no reference to any supposed cooling effect (and even in case, it was just advertising material, with no real meaning).

Coming to purchase of contemporary steel needles, most European enthusiasts (the writer included) buy and swear about those sold by member Soundgen. Of course buyng them from overseas would imply dealing with duties (well, since the brexit thing duties are implied even within Europe, but let's skip this point) and a trans-continental shipping. Best would be if you could devise a reliable provider in the US, which in turn is warmly recommended by a huge number of experienced enthusiasts. However, I may be wrong but I have the impression that Americans - speaking in general - don't care about the tone grade of the needles as much as we Europeans do by long tradition.

Thank you Marco for so eloquently stating the situation. (Who could possibly refute Galileo? ) If I may simply add, we tend to overthink things a bit.

[Hoodoo]

I also make my own bamboo needles the way Inigo describes, but I do not have a special cutter to form the point. Instead, I just hold the end at an angle against the side of my bench grinder wheel. Works a treat.
Sharpening between plays is done on a piece of 320 grit emery paper lying on a flat surface (the paper, not me).
It was Alex Kirtley’s YouTube video about sharpening fibre needles this way that inspired me to start making my own. Thank you Alex.

[Inigo]

Yes, yes. I also use a small wood strip with a grinding paper stuck over it. I made it when young, for resharpening steel needles, when I had no supply. It has a thick grain by one side an a thinner one by the other. The grit paper is now worn down, si I find it ideal for wooden needles... One side grind and the other polishes the point very smooth and hardened. I'm now experimenting with triangular bamboo needles ground to a conical point. They work fairly well... Although the point seems to last shorter than the original triangular point. The conical one has no bamboo skin...

[Lah Ca]

Forgive me if this is a foolish question, but if bamboo needles have shafts that are triangular in cross section, how are they secured in a holder which is designed for round shafted steel needles?

[Henry]

Forgive me if this is a foolish question, but if bamboo needles have shafts that are triangular in cross section, how are they secured in a holder which is designed for round shafted steel needles?

Answer: you don't, i.e., you can't. That's why Victor introduced the triangular receiver in the revised needle bar of the Exhibition, and later sound boxes, around 1909(?) or so, IIRC. The revised needle bar will accommodate both the round needles as well as the triangular bamboo ones.

[Lah Ca]

Answer: you don't, i.e., you can't. That's why Victor introduced the triangular receiver in the revised needle bar of the Exhibition, and later sound boxes, around 1909(?) or so, IIRC. The revised needle bar will accommodate both the round needles as well as the triangular bamboo ones.

Thanks.

So triangular bamboo needles are almost certainly incompatible with my 1918ish Aeolian Vocalian which accepts only round shafted needles.

My only fibre options might be thorns or improvements on my self-made skewer needles.

[Lucius1958]

Forgive me if this is a foolish question, but if bamboo needles have shafts that are triangular in cross section, how are they secured in a holder which is designed for round shafted steel needles?

There were bamboo needles made, in which the triangular body was cut down to a circular cross section where it went into the needle chuck. With some work, one could possibly replicate them.

- Bill