Needles?

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52089
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Re: Needles?

Post by 52089 »

You're off by quite a bit since the Canadian 1 cent coin weighs about 2.35 gm and the American equivalent is about 2.5 gm.

The easiest way to estimate tracking weight is just to weigh the reproducer, so just for grins, I did just that.

The Exhibition, No. 2, and Orthophonic each weigh roughly 150 gm, give or take 5 gm or so. That's over 5 ounces.

I think there's another thread on here that further discusses tracking weight, including the Diamond Disc, which IIRC tracks around 165 gm.

Lah Ca
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Re: Needles?

Post by Lah Ca »

52089 wrote: Fri Jan 07, 2022 8:09 pm You're off by quite a bit since the Canadian 1 cent coin weighs about 2.35 gm and the American equivalent is about 2.5 gm.

The easiest way to estimate tracking weight is just to weigh the reproducer, so just for grins, I did just that.

The Exhibition, No. 2, and Orthophonic each weigh roughly 150 gm, give or take 5 gm or so. That's over 5 ounces.

I think there's another thread on here that further discusses tracking weight, including the Diamond Disc, which IIRC tracks around 165 gm.
Thanks.

Don't know what I was thinking (or not).

The AR balance scale instructions said that an American penny was about 2.5 grams.

Average the pennies at 2.45 grams x 50 and we get 122.5 grams (an estimation probably still way off).

Hoodoo
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Re: Needles?

Post by Hoodoo »

I thought the BBC study used this sort of early electrical pickup, that has a tracking force similar to that of an acoustic gramophone.
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Lah Ca
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Re: Needles?

Post by Lah Ca »

Hoodoo wrote: Sat Jan 08, 2022 9:56 am I thought the BBC study used this sort of early electrical pickup, that has a tracking force similar to that of an acoustic gramophone.
Very interesting. Thanks. You are probably correct.

I am learning so much from the contributions to this thread.

Lah Ca
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Re: Needles?

Post by Lah Ca »

I now have a variety of needles to experiment with.

Vintage Needles

I have sorted through a jumble of allegedly unused needles that came with my gramophone, something I had avoided doing because there was a lot of rust - also a lot of online advice strongly discourages the use of loose needles that come with gramophones because they are probably used. I notice that there does not seem to be a lot of consistency between needles of different manufacture. I sorted the needles into three rough categories, loud, medium and soft and then sorted through these groups using a numismatic hand lens, tossing any needles with corrosion on the tips. I cleaned up any rusty needles that could be salvaged. Among each of the three groups of needles there are subtle variations in diameter and tip profile/taper Some of the rusted ones appear to be plain carbon steel. Others appear to be nickle plated and, therefore, more rust resistant. Interestingly some are magnetic and some are not. Some have pinch cut ends. Some have flush cut ends. Among these older needles, there were no needles with bad tips. Quality control seems to have been a thing here with older needles.

Modern Needles

I also now have a number of different modern needles from a number of different sources. I have learned that with these needles it is important to sort through them using a hand lens before use. With needles from one source, perhaps as many as one in five have a tip that is off centre. With needles from another source, maybe one in twenty has a tip with a little fishhook barb on the end. Quality control seems to be less of a thing here. The Swiss Pfanstiehl multi-play needles, however, so far seem to be entirely without flaws.

Bamboo Needles

A kindly and helpful vendor in Ontario sold me a very reasonably priced random collection of various vintage bamboo needles, some obviously used salvage, some seemingly unused. It is interesting how little they seem to wear - one can get a surprising number of plays before they need to be resharpened. They also seem, with an initial play of a record, to act like a snow plough or road sweeper, scooping up a lot of black debris and rubble from the grooves and collecting it on the needle, something a steel needle does not do. And most interestingly, the needle seems to ride in a different band in the groove sidewalls from where steel needles have made contact - the sound can be startling good and relatively/comparatively free from the noise of record wear.

Vintage vs Modern Steel

My slight feeling/impression is that the vintage steel needles sound slightly better than the modern ones I have, better tone. This impression is entirely subjective. It could just be my imagination. :D

Lah Ca
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Re: Needles?

Post by Lah Ca »

With regards to what sort of turntables might have been used in the 1937/38 BBC study of needle use, the turntable in the attached picture is claimed to be a BBC turntable from the late 1930s.
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Orchorsol
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Re: Needles?

Post by Orchorsol »

Lah Ca wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 6:04 pm With regards to what sort of turntables might have been used in the 1937/38 BBC study of needle use, the turntable in the attached picture is claimed to be a BBC turntable from the late 1930s.
Wow, what a coincidence to see that photo - I've just dug mine out (soon to be sold to a fellow collector):
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BCN thorn needles made to the original 1920s specifications: http://www.burmesecolourneedles.com

Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCe4DNb ... TPE-zTAJGg?

EdiBrunsVic
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Re: Needles?

Post by EdiBrunsVic »

Yes. I also appreciate the information.

Lah Ca
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Re: Needles?

Post by Lah Ca »

The Cull!

I just opened a new pack of soft tone needles and went through them, examining the tips with hand lenses.

The large hand lens is ancient (something I found in my grandfather's effects) and is of relatively low power, and being so, it is easy to use - easy to maintain focus. I use it first. Good needle tips are quite obvious.

I use the smaller 20 power lens to examine suspect tips more closely. It is harder to use.

Anyway, out of a package of 100 new needles (I did not actually count them), 20 are defective, or so I would judge them to be, anyway. Some have tips that look alarmingly like microscopic garden implements - they might be OK if I could be certain that it was not the blade of the hoe that was facing downwards ready to break up the soil of the shellac. Mostly the problems seem to be with malformed nickle plating, but with some it appears to be the needles themselves.

The rejects lie on the left side of the plate.

Quality control?
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Last edited by Lah Ca on Fri Jan 28, 2022 12:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

JerryVan
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Re: Needles?

Post by JerryVan »

I have found needles with hooked ends also. The condition has been covered in past forum threads. I "inspect" each needle by running my finger along the shank, towards the tip, and feeling for any "snag" against my fingertip, caused by the notorious hook. Not as good as your loupe inspection, but I have caught a few. Never had one get by, to do actual damage.

My assumption/theory has been that the needles are polished in a tumbler and that every so often, a needle tip hits another needle, or the tumbler shell, in just the right way to bend the point. Chances of that type of collision may be slim, but thousands of needles, tumbling for how long.... I dunno :roll:

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