Has Anyone "listened" Their Way Out of Hardened Grease?

[travisgreyfox]

I have a VV-100 that I enjoy playing records on but don't feel like pulling the motor apart to re-grease the springs. I get a bunch "thumping" throughout when playing a record. I was wondering if anyone has played their way out of this problem and the grease got softer over time due to the springs moving a lot within the spring barrel.

[Phono48]

If you continue to play the gramophone with the springs in that bad a state, the problem will only get worse, until it gets to the stage where the coils of the springs get so stuck together that they will suddenly come apart with such force that the spring breaks. Taking the springs out, removing all traces of the old grease (you'll probably need a sharp chisel), and re-greasing them is the ONLY answer to this very common problem.

[Inigo]

I've been fed up with thumping springs, after several cleanings and testing different greases.. I can understand Travis... He's looking for one thing I do from time to time... Not the best, of course, but an intermediate solution. I open the barrels and put some quantity of good automotive modern oil inside. Then close and reassemble, and see what happens. Usually this ends with the thumping for some time. It helps dissolving the graphite cake. Make a convex tray made of aluminium paper (double or triple) with raised edges to catch the oil that will drop out of the spring barrel when using the machine. Place it on the 'bed' on top of the horn, and mould it so it is fixed on the horn and doesn't touch the motor. It must be fixed under the motor so it is effective. If not, the oil will drop out elsewhere and stain the cabinet innards....
Not a definitive solution, but it sometimes improves the spring performance.
Use the machine.
Later, when you decide to disassemble the spring, it will be easier to clean.
Still if the graphite cake is too strong, the spring can thump and break, so do it at your own risk...

[JerryVan]

It will only get worse. The only real solution is to remove the springs, clean them & reinstall with new grease dabbed in at regular intervals as you wind the spring into the barrel. Then, pack the center coils nearly full with grease. I use graphite grease.

[JeffR1]

I won't post here, I'm trying to consolidate all these questions about grease, and spring's that "Thump".
See my post dated "Sun Mar 27, 2022 6:53 am"

As of the date above, it's the last post in that thread.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=50874&p=311638#p311638

[gramophoneshane]

Personally I think it's a waste of time and energy to try and take short cuts.
Why go to the trouble of pulling the motor down, opening the barrel to add oil or grease, then put it all together only to find it hasn't worked, or two weeks later it starts to thump again and you have to do the whole process over again.
It only takes 10-15 mins to remove and clean a spring once the lids off then reassemble it, so it's done properly and you don't have touch it again for 10-20 yrs.

[Inigo]

.... in cases where the springs work well!
I'm in the same line as Jeff. There's one of those big Burton motors (4 springs) that I've disassembled and reassembled many times, cleaning the springs and re-greasing. I've tested automotive oil, lithium grease with and without graphite flake, baseline with graphite, moly grease... Yet I've not got a perfectly running motor. I don't remember what is the latest thing I used... butt it works, unless you left the machine alone for some weeks and try to play again. Then the thumping is there. Only after some plays it seems to work well. But after some days quiet, the problem is there again.
I don't know what happens. I've surrendered. Simply I won't try anything more, until the day one spring will break.
Examining the springs, I've noticed that used springs develop a scratchy surface on the coils, and I blame that. News springs seen to have a certain tempered, oily surface, that is lost after some time of use. I don't know if it's that, or that my springs are of inadequate size (one of them at least) although they seem all equal to me.
Perhaps if I disassemble it again, clean thoroughly, examine the clean springs, etc (changing the ones I find odd).... But I'm tired. Maybe this summer I'll try it again.
Each time I reassembled it seemed to work that very day. But after some time, the thumping appears.

[OrthoFan]

.... in cases where the springs work well!
I'm in the same line as Jeff. There's one of those big Burton motors (4 springs) that I've disassembled and reassembled many times, cleaning the springs and re-greasing. I've tested automotive oil, lithium grease with and without graphite flake, baseline with graphite, moly grease... Yet I've not got a perfectly running motor. I don't remember what is the latest thing I used... butt it works, unless you left the machine alone for some weeks and try to play again. Then the thumping is there. Only after some plays it seems to work well. But after some days quiet, the problem is there again.
I don't know what happens. I've surrendered. Simply I won't try anything more, until the day one spring will break.
Examining the springs, I've noticed that used springs develop a scratchy surface on the coils, and I blame that. News springs seen to have a certain tempered, oily surface, that is lost after some time of use. I don't know if it's that, or that my springs are of inadequate size (one of them at least) although they seem all equal to me.
Perhaps if I disassemble it again, clean thoroughly, examine the clean springs, etc (changing the ones I find odd).... But I'm tired. Maybe this summer I'll try it again.
Each time I reassembled it seemed to work that very day. But after some time, the thumping appears.

That's been my experience too. Over the past 40 years, I've had about a dozen Victor motors serviced/cleaned/re-greased by highly rated shops that other collectors recommended to me. In one case, the springs bumped after about a week and I returned the motor to the shop to try again, but they refused and sent it right back to me, demanding reimbursement for the return postage!!! (I never sent it, and never heard back from them.)

Even motors that have had new replacement springs--again, installed by shops that purported to specialize in this--have only worked properly for awhile, perhaps six months or so, before they started bumping again.

Now, when my 4-40's springs start bumping, I pull the motor, remove the barrel, put in a cap full of transmission fluid and "finger in" a small glob of molly grease through the hole, reassemble it, and it's normally good to go, bump-free, for about a year or two.

OrthoFan

[travisgreyfox]

I guess I'll take it apart and do it the right way Thanks for the replies guys!

[JeffR1]

.... in cases where the springs work well!
I'm in the same line as Jeff. There's one of those big Burton motors (4 springs) that I've disassembled and reassembled many times, cleaning the springs and re-greasing. I've tested automotive oil, lithium grease with and without graphite flake, baseline with graphite, moly grease... Yet I've not got a perfectly running motor. I don't remember what is the latest thing I used... butt it works, unless you left the machine alone for some weeks and try to play again. Then the thumping is there. Only after some plays it seems to work well. But after some days quiet, the problem is there again.
I don't know what happens. I've surrendered. Simply I won't try anything more, until the day one spring will break.
Examining the springs, I've noticed that used springs develop a scratchy surface on the coils, and I blame that. News springs seen to have a certain tempered, oily surface, that is lost after some time of use. I don't know if it's that, or that my springs are of inadequate size (one of them at least) although they seem all equal to me.
Perhaps if I disassemble it again, clean thoroughly, examine the clean springs, etc (changing the ones I find odd).... But I'm tired. Maybe this summer I'll try it again.
Each time I reassembled it seemed to work that very day. But after some time, the thumping appears.

That's been my experience too. Over the past 40 years, I've had about a dozen Victor motors serviced/cleaned/re-greased by highly rated shops that other collectors recommended to me. In one case, the springs bumped after about a week and I returned the motor to the shop to try again, but they refused and sent it right back to me, demanding reimbursement for the return postage!!! (I never sent it, and never heard back from them.)

Even motors that have had new replacement springs--again, installed by shops that purported to specialize in this--have only worked properly for awhile, perhaps six months or so, before they started bumping again.

Now, when my 4-40's springs start bumping, I pull the motor, remove the barrel, put in a cap full of transmission fluid and "finger in" a small glob of molly grease through the hole, reassemble it, and it's normally good to go, bump-free, for about a year or two.

OrthoFan

That's a huge problem now a days with the internet and pretty websites.
Anyone can claim they have experience and charge for their services, but all they are, are self taught.
All they know is their own method, but that doesn't make it the best way.