Victor O

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travisgreyfox
Victor IV
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Victor O

Post by travisgreyfox »

I just bought my first external horn disc machine the other day! The only bad news is it no longer works. Before I left the sellers house it worked great. When I got home and started cranking it up it would feel like something started slipping and it wouldn't wind past a certain point (without sounding like a quick unwind would happen). I'm wondering if the main spring broke or came unwind. I hope I explained the problem well enough, it would be easier if we could just post videos directly on the forum.

JeffR1
Victor II
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Re: Victor O

Post by JeffR1 »

I don't know of any forum where Videos can be uploaded directly.
You upload to YouTube and post the link here, it's pretty easy.

About your machine, my first machine was a Victor II with a wood horn, and had similar symptoms.
The main spring shaft and the spring barrel where the shaft wore on, was so worn that the big ring gear was binding on the worm.
It played and stopped and sometime I would wind it up, and it would do nothing..

Make sure it's wound down, rock the spring barrel back and forth _ there should be virtually no play in it.

gramophoneshane
Victor VI
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Re: Victor O

Post by gramophoneshane »

I think the only way to find out what's happened unfortunately, is to dismantle the motor, take the lid off the spring barrel and have a look inside.
You should then be able to see if there's a break in spring, or if it's just come unhooked from the centre arbour.
If it's still attached at the centre arbour and appears that the spring is unbroken, then its likely the outer end of the spring has either become unattached from the barrel or has broken, so you'll have no choice but to remove the spring for reattachment, repair or replacement.

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phonogfp
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Re: Victor O

Post by phonogfp »

I have a Victor I whose mainspring will detach from the arbor if allowed to run down completely. Fortunately, it will reattach itself if the motor board is raised to its locked position, the crank placed on the (now exposed) winding shaft, and slowly cranked.

You might try winding the Victor 0's motor while in different positions to see if gravity helps you as it has me!

George P.

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gramophone-georg
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Re: Victor O

Post by gramophone-georg »

I have had success spinning the turntable backwards while winding when these springs become detached as well.
"He who dies with the most shellac wins"- some nutty record geek

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Lucius1958
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Re: Victor O

Post by Lucius1958 »

If it winds up for a few turns and then slips, that sounds like an outer end problem. If it were the inner end, there would be no tension on the crank at all. Let's hope it just came unhooked, and isn't broken at the outer end.

- Bill

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travisgreyfox
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Re: Victor O

Post by travisgreyfox »

Thanks for all the info. So I tried cranking super slowly and in all different positions, as suggested. This is what happens: After I get a few full turns in the machine almost "pops" and then the spring loses all tension (it has tension while cranking). I can start cranking again immediately and can feel tension from the main spring. The gears all look in decent shape to me, but I've seen some in the past that looked good but were screwed up.

I hope your not right Bill in that it is internal :?


I have worked on my Victrola motors in the past (with lots of help from you guys). Not sure if I feel comfortable working on a much more rare victor motor because I am not very mechanically minded.

Thanks again for all of the input, it is much appreciated.

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travisgreyfox
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Re: Victor O

Post by travisgreyfox »

Heres some reference pics of the motor.
Attachments
20220430_215941.jpg
20220430_215935.jpg
20220430_215930.jpg
20220430_215923.jpg

gramophoneshane
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Re: Victor O

Post by gramophoneshane »

It certainly sounds from your description that either the spring has broken, or is detached at the outer end.
The only way to know unfortunately is to look.
That's probably one of the easiest motors around to remove the spring barrel from as all you need to do is unscrew two screws once you've removed the crank.
You can see one of the screws in the second last photo you posted directly above.
You don't really need to be too machanically minded to work on a lot of these motors because they're so basic and simple, unlike say, a clock that has dozens of gears with fine bearings etc.

The best thing to do if you're not familiar with various motors, is grab your phone and take lots of pictures in good light from different angles so you can use them as a reference when you put it back together.
But the number 1 most important rule to always remember working on any spring motor is ALWAYS make sure the motor has run down completely and there's no tension remaining in the spring.
If you follow that rule then there's no danger of damaging the motor or yourself.

The two screws I mentioned hold what is called the ratchet assembly, which is the triangular casting with a cluster of small gears where the crank handle attaches to the motor.
When you unscrew the 2 screws holding that assembly to the body of the motor, that whole casting and cluster will come away still assembled, and then the spring barrel can be slid out so you look inside, and it'll be just as simple to put back together when you're done.

Provided you're not the kind of guy who's afraid to get his hands a bit dirty, and thinks having to maybe wash a smear of oil or grease off a couple fingertips is the end of the world, then you'll find after doing a couple small tasks like this, you'll realise these motors aren't as difficult or scarry to work on as some people make out.
I was 13 when I started doing motors, and I think the only things I'd ever tried pulling apart and assembling prior to that was Lego blocks, so I when in with absolutely no experience even undoing a screw.
And I strongly believe that as long as a person concerntrates, uses common sense, and asks about anything they're unsure of first, then practically anyone is capable of servicing these motors provided these no major damage.

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travisgreyfox
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Re: Victor O

Post by travisgreyfox »

Thanks for the abundance of info Shane. How do I open the spring barrel? Is it the same as a Victrola one with the retaining ring?

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