Victor spring barrel retainer clip/circlip help

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CharliePhono
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Victor spring barrel retainer clip/circlip help

Post by CharliePhono »

Well, I've done a gazillion of these things, I think, but today had me coloring the atmosphere with a litany of words, the majority of which rhymed with various forms of "duck." For some reason, whether it's fatigue or what, I seemed to be having a fiendish time getting these clips back in place. This led me to seek some collective wisdom for tips or tricks on getting these consarned things reinstalled. I'm going to tackle it anew tomorrow (two of 'em), but in the meanwhile thought I'd ask if there was perhaps some secret to this I've been ignorant of, lo these many years. I don't know why I'm having a deuce of a time this go-round. Help me lest the profanity police come to my house and arrest me.

For what it's worth, that which led to me reopening the spring barrels (second time on this motor) was that I had insufficient grease in the barrels after a rebuild and needed to add/repack to stop the bumpity-thump. That'll teach me to use sufficient grease the first time around. Maybe.

Many thanks in advancel!
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JeffR1
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Re: Victor spring barrel retainer clip/circlip help

Post by JeffR1 »

Go to 19:30.
I do it differently, I start at one end and work it around with my bare hands until it snaps in.
Ones hands would have to be stronger to do it the way it was done in the video.
Maybe you don't have the springs all the way into the barrel and it's keeping the cover and clip from seating properly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTr6a6Ml8iM

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Inigo
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Re: Victor spring barrel retainer clip/circlip help

Post by Inigo »

Singer of these are easier to fit than others. I've found dinner circle to be made of very thick stiff steel wire which are a nightmare to get in place... The very last part I help myself with a pair of pliers or a soft hammer to get it clack! into place. Sometimes you'll need three hands. Better if you can fix the barrel on a vise in a work bench, to be able to use both hands at full force.... I have no work bench not any workshop facilities, but I get surprised each time I watch a YT video of colleagues doing these things with proper tooling in a work bench... How easy things are when you have suitable means!
Imagine fitting the springs with the barrel fixed between your knees, etc.... Ufffff!
Even with proper tooling, things gramophonic sometimes turn very difficult. I watched a video of one of our colleagues fitting a heavy Edison DD 18' spring into the barrel, fixed on a vise. He suffered a lot!
My worst experience was with a single spring Thorens motor, the typical 52-H, which has a small strong spring. The barrel is small, so holding it with one hand while trying to fit the spring with the other.... It was terrible. I feel more comfortable with the larger barrels and springs. It seems that is easier to hold your grip on a larger thing....
Inigo

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CharliePhono
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Re: Victor spring barrel retainer clip/circlip help

Post by CharliePhono »

JeffR1 wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 11:22 pm Go to 19:30.
I do it differently, I start at one end and work it around with my bare hands until it snaps in.
Ones hands would have to be stronger to do it the way it was done in the video.
Maybe you don't have the springs all the way into the barrel and it's keeping the cover and clip from seating properly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTr6a6Ml8iM
Hi Jeff and thanks for sending the video. I actually was trying both ways -- as in the video and as you suggested -- and neither seemed to work yesterday. The barrel cap is positioned such that there is adequate space for the ring to snap into place -- in a perfect world. As I say, I've had both of these on and off before without apparent problem.

I also need to concede I'm simply not as strong as I used to be. I will be attempting again later today and perhaps this time it will work.

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CharliePhono
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Re: Victor spring barrel retainer clip/circlip help

Post by CharliePhono »

Inigo wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 7:45 am Singer of these are easier to fit than others. I've found dinner circle to be made of very thick stiff steel wire which are a nightmare to get in place... The very last part I help myself with a pair of pliers or a soft hammer to get it clack! into place. Sometimes you'll need three hands. Better if you can fix the barrel on a vise in a work bench, to be able to use both hands at full force.... I have no work bench not any workshop facilities, but I get surprised each time I watch a YT video of colleagues doing these things with proper tooling in a work bench... How easy things are when you have suitable means!
Imagine fitting the springs with the barrel fixed between your knees, etc.... Ufffff!
Even with proper tooling, things gramophonic sometimes turn very difficult. I watched a video of one of our colleagues fitting a heavy Edison DD 18' spring into the barrel, fixed on a vise. He suffered a lot!
My worst experience was with a single spring Thorens motor, the typical 52-H, which has a small strong spring. The barrel is small, so holding it with one hand while trying to fit the spring with the other.... It was terrible. I feel more comfortable with the larger barrels and springs. It seems that is easier to hold your grip on a larger thing....
Hi Inigo,

Yes, this is one of the aspects of working on spring motors that is, as we say, a total PITA (pain in the ***). I tried needle-nose pliers, a rubber mallet -- everything but prayer, and I just couldn't get it. As I said to Jeff above, perhaps in the new light of day I'll get it in there. I have to! This is the motor out of my Credenza and I have a pile of records to listen to!

Cheers!

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Re: Victor spring barrel retainer clip/circlip help

Post by JeffR1 »

CharliePhono wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 12:07 pm
JeffR1 wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 11:22 pm Go to 19:30.
I do it differently, I start at one end and work it around with my bare hands until it snaps in.
Ones hands would have to be stronger to do it the way it was done in the video.
Maybe you don't have the springs all the way into the barrel and it's keeping the cover and clip from seating properly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTr6a6Ml8iM
Hi Jeff and thanks for sending the video. I actually was trying both ways -- as in the video and as you suggested -- and neither seemed to work yesterday. The barrel cap is positioned such that there is adequate space for the ring to snap into place -- in a perfect world. As I say, I've had both of these on and off before without apparent problem.

I also need to concede I'm simply not as strong as I used to be. I will be attempting again later today and perhaps this time it will work.

If you have a vice, clamp it in like in the video and use two screw drivers to work it in, like mounting a stubborn road bike tire on a rim.

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Re: Victor spring barrel retainer clip/circlip help

Post by outune »

Most of the time, these clips snap into place without many bad words... but now and then, I've run into one that just won't cooperate.
In those cases, my 'technique' may raise the ire of a few, but I see no ill-effects. I simply grab a pair of strong snips and cut about 1/16" off of one end of the wire clip. The slightly shortened wire clip gives the extra compression room needed to get it fully seated into the groove in the barrel. 1/16" doesn't affect the holding power, nor does it allow for grease seepage, at least in my experience.

Brad Abell

JeffR1
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Re: Victor spring barrel retainer clip/circlip help

Post by JeffR1 »

If installing the spring clip like in the video, I can certainly see where clipping the snap ring would make that method much easier.

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CharliePhono
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Re: Victor spring barrel retainer clip/circlip help

Post by CharliePhono »

Brad, your technique is the one I ended up going with. I've never had to do this before, but after an additional two hours of hair-pulling effort to get the retainers in (and I was able to borrow my neighbor's bench vise), I did end up nipping off a tad. Even then, with some effort, they finally seated. Thank you for the suggestion, as I would not have otherwise considered this.

It is to note that these clips were not like the ones in the video with the flattened ends. They were a simple stiff round of wire. They are from a 1925 Credenza; I'm unaware of when the flat-ended iteration appeared.

In any case, what should have taken two minutes ended up taking two days. I thank everyone for their help and suggestions.

Best regards,
Charlie

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Re: Victor spring barrel retainer clip/circlip help

Post by need4art »

I read this thread with interest as I had the same issue with a 4 door Credenza. I have done 8 units both single and double barrel units but never had an issue with the spring clip until this unit. I did all the normal stuff, but got to the point that I realized that the top was not seating evenly all around leaving less room for the spring clip in some areas than others, so it would not "clip in".

I went so far as to pull out the newly greased clean spring, cleaning it again. I put the lid in and without the spring in place the lid seated and then the clip went in pretty well. ? Too much grease ??? So I put jus a small amount of grease in the sides and bottom and put the spring back in. I then noticed that the spring actually slightly deformed the barrel and I had to work to get the lid in and still the clip would not seat. I finally resorted to putting a strong fabric ratchet strap around the barrel and bringing it back to round again (did not take much) and while it still took a lot of work to get the spring clip to hook up-it did, both barrels had to be treated the same way.

One of antique phonographs little mysteries????

Why??
Abe

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