What is THIS fresh hell?

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VanEpsFan1914
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Re: What is THIS fresh hell?

Post by VanEpsFan1914 »

Hello Charlie,

My Victrola XIV with the long crescent indicator did the same thing for awhile. Let your motor run completely down on low setting, remove the governor, and:

1) tighten all screws at the backs of the weights
2) make sure all the governor springs are equalized, where if there's a longer hole it's sitting on the same end as other longer holes, and if it's just a little round hole it's with others like it-
3) make sure you can move the governor disc back & forth without one spring flexing before the others do
4) reassemble & adjust

These are definitely a bit annoying, and mine was like this for awhile--Not fun to deal with. (This was on a 3-spring motor. Not Victor's finest moment but still a fun motor to work on & nice & powerful, each spring in an individual barrel--perfectly reasonably built.)

If the springs are weak, as Brad suggests, maybe try fresh springs.

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CharliePhono
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Re: What is THIS fresh hell?

Post by CharliePhono »

I sincerely thank everyone for their input. I surmised this absolutely had to be a governor problem. A bit of a back story: The machine had begun doing this even before the re-teardown and lubing of the springs. Also, this is the second governor in the motor. When I disassembled the motor the second time, it seemed to me the governor was too tight, i.e., just about zero play between the bearings. I loosened it some, but perhaps too much. As the machine began doing this prior to the second disassembly, I have to surmise it's something with the weights and/or springs (or both) loose or not up to par. I do have a new set of springs I've been holding on to for just such things. I intend to get at it later today and will report back.

By the way, just how much play is enough or too much for the governor?

outune
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Re: What is THIS fresh hell?

Post by outune »

I can't give you a precise "measurement". I do it by 'feel" and whether the governor is spinning freely-- maybe 1/32" at most?? You just want to make sure the end bearings aren't binding the governor shaft in any way- If you can move the governor shaft back and forth between the bearings, then there is too much slack.

Brad Abell

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Inigo
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Re: What is THIS fresh hell?

Post by Inigo »

By feel can mean this, in my own practice. You adjust the governor bearings tight, then push the governor against the adjustable bearing just a bit and fix the screw. As long as you move the governor back and forth along the axis and you don't feel almost any displacement, but clearly hear a click-clak, then you've given just the little gap necessary.
Inigo

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CharliePhono
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Re: What is THIS fresh hell?

Post by CharliePhono »

So here's an update: I removed the motor and inspected the governor. There was probably a bit too much play, but I went ahead and completely removed it in order to check that the springs and weights were tight and that nothing was broken. There were no loose weights or springs. I even tried Charles's suggestion to flex the springs to see that they all flexed in unison. They did. However, being that I had a new set of springs and weights, I threw caution to the wind and installed them. I also lightly polished the plate against which the speed leather rests and checked, as well as the shaft, then reoiled, reassembled, and installed, checking for the famous play we talk about. There is now probably what Brad would call the 0.32" wiggle and that's it. Nothing more. I wound and watched with the motor still out of the cabinet. All seemed good with no rubbing, clattering or clanking. I re-lubed/oiled everything and the motor is now back in the machine. Of course, the speed had to be recalibrated with my strobe, and I finagled again with the speed indicator arrow, resetting it to 78 rpm.

At this moment, the motor is purring away. I played a record, which sounded fine to my ears with no wow or wobble. I'm rewinding and running, lather, rinse, and repeat. Thus far, no weirdness. Let's see if this finally fixes the problem. You'll hear from me for sure if it doesn't but in the meantime all seems well. If all continues to be ok, I'm celebrating tonight with pizza and a cold beer (a rarity for me). This Credenza represents a lot for me and will likely be the last one I'll own, not having had one for over ten years now. Keeping all fingers and toes crossed . . .

Thanks again, everyone!

outune
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Re: What is THIS fresh hell?

Post by outune »

Glad you got it purring along--- Sometimes it just takes a little finagling to get those motors to cooperate-
By the way-- My suggestion was 1/32" at most... not .32" (which is around 5/16") :) Just the smidge of clearance is all that's needed.

Doing the extra polishing/cleaning you did was wise as well-- old dirt and grease can affect speed as well-

Brad Abell

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CharliePhono
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Re: What is THIS fresh hell?

Post by CharliePhono »

outune wrote: Sun Jun 05, 2022 4:07 pm Glad you got it purring along--- Sometimes it just takes a little finagling to get those motors to cooperate-
By the way-- My suggestion was 1/32" at most... not .32" (which is around 5/16") :) Just the smidge of clearance is all that's needed.

Doing the extra polishing/cleaning you did was wise as well-- old dirt and grease can affect speed as well-

Brad Abell
Yup! Brad, I wrote it wrong. There is virtually no play in the thing, just a "soupçon," as they say in the culinary world. So far, so good. I played the machine well over an hour last night with nary a hitch. All I can think of at this point is that appearances can be deceiving! Even though I had the second governor in there, after installation of new springs and weights, it made all the difference. What may appear to be right may often not be, taking into consideration nearly 100 years of age. I have no way of testing such a thing, but my guess is the old springs had lost some of their tensile strength, if that makes sense?

Thanks again!

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Inigo
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Re: What is THIS fresh hell?

Post by Inigo »

Yes, fatigue, or micro-cracking...
Inigo

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