Problems with Victrola #2 rebuild

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dale h
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Problems with Victrola #2 rebuild

Post by dale h »

I bought and installed new balance springs on my Victrola #2 reproducer. Adjusting them is causing problems.

The only way I can get the needle vertical and get the foot of the needle arm to touch the diaphragm is by tightening one of the adjusting screws all the way down and loosening the other one up until it is only part way though the tapped hole in the mounting plate on the reproducer body.

It appears that the problem is that the flats on the needle bar and not perpendicular to the needle, and the tapped holes to attach the balance springs are not parallel to the needle. Not even close. Is this normal? Is the shaft with the flats and balance screw attachments a separate piece from the needle arm and needle socket? It seems that if I can rotate the bar relative to the needle arm and needle socket the problem would go away.

Dale H

Herderz
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Re: Problems with Victrola #2 rebuild

Post by Herderz »

Dale h, I am no expert by any means but I had the same issues on my rebuild of the Victor 2 on my VV-IX. I purchased new springs, screws, nuts and gaskets for my reproducer. and run into the same problems. I did get instructions on how to set up the needle bar and yes the flats of the cross bar were not horizonal to the vertical needle bar to the diaphragm. So the outside screw and spring are tighter than the inside screw and spring. I thought if this occurred that the instructions would say to bend the needle bar to flatten the pivot points horizonal to the needle bar. but no instruction to the like. I still do not know if it is set up correct based on the pivot points of the bar. I have not ask any further questions to the forum about this. I do know that having the needle bar just touch the diaphragm and connections has my reproducer sounding better than the old dried up reproducer. I to would like some clarity on the issue. It seems to me that the imbalance of spring pressure from front to back would affect sound quality. But I am a newby.
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Herderz
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Re: Problems with Victrola #2 rebuild

Post by Herderz »

This is the angle of the flat pivot point of the needle bar. It don't look right to me. there has to be different spring pressure for each spring. Again I am a newby and do not know such things. I have my #2 off my machine because I am going to rebuild the rubber tone arm mount just like Wyatt suggests using GE Silicone II.
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Herderz
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Re: Problems with Victrola #2 rebuild

Post by Herderz »

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Herderz
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Re: Problems with Victrola #2 rebuild

Post by Herderz »

I can bend the springs to balance out the pressure on the needle bar so they are balanced but is this the correct thing to do? The pivot point cross arm will still be not horizonal to the needle arm.

JerryVan
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Re: Problems with Victrola #2 rebuild

Post by JerryVan »

I really believe that you both have a problem with the cross bar being rotated in its mounting. If it were mine, I would drive out the cross bar and reinstall it with the flats perpendicualr to the needle chuck. I don't know if these bars were originally pressed in place or soldered, but nonetheless, I would re-align them. What you've got is definitely not correct.

dale h
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Re: Problems with Victrola #2 rebuild

Post by dale h »

Herderz, those pictures look pretty much like what I have as well. The only difference is that I haven't tightened the rear adjusting screw down as far. That brings up another question - how tight should the adjusting screws be? I figured they should be just tight enough to hold the needle bar in place.

Jerry - so the cross bar is a separate piece then? That was my original question. I wanted to make sure before I did something stupid.

Next time I am in the shop (may be a few days) I will hit it with some heat and see if I can rotate the bar in place. The bar is brass, and I try to avoid hammering brass for fear of mushrooming the end.

Thanks to you both for the input and I will let you know how it goes.

Dale H

JerryVan
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Re: Problems with Victrola #2 rebuild

Post by JerryVan »

dale h wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 7:07 am Herderz, those pictures look pretty much like what I have as well. The only difference is that I haven't tightened the rear adjusting screw down as far. That brings up another question - how tight should the adjusting screws be? I figured they should be just tight enough to hold the needle bar in place.

Jerry - so the cross bar is a separate piece then? That was my original question. I wanted to make sure before I did something stupid.

Next time I am in the shop (may be a few days) I will hit it with some heat and see if I can rotate the bar in place. The bar is brass, and I try to avoid hammering brass for fear of mushrooming the end.

Thanks to you both for the input and I will let you know how it goes.

Dale H
Just BEWARE, if you apply heat, you will also unsolder the needle arm attachment point.

You can try tapping out the cross bar with a small hammer. Just don't hit it hard enough to mushroom anything. Be sure to support the needle chuck while tapping on the cross bar. Sliding a small tube over the opposite end of the cross bar, such that the tube end rests against and supports the needle chuck while you're tapping, would be ideal.

Herderz
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Re: Problems with Victrola #2 rebuild

Post by Herderz »

Thanks Jerry, That was my thoughts on the alinement. The pivot bar is out of alinement and no telling how long it has been that way. I see no witness marks that it has ever been messed with, could be from the factory, which I doubt, or a very old rework that was not quit right. Anyway I studied the seat on the pivot bar which is brass into a steel needle bar and can see that it is a knelled press fit with solder. I thought I could use my stacking anvil to push the pivot shaft out of the steel needle bar.
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Noting that the spring thread holes are half the diameter of the needle bar I inserted the spring screw into the threads to keep from distorting the threads in the hole. Just a couple of taps with a pinning hammer would make the brass bar useless. I removed the screw after I un-seated the needle bar. It came out very easy after I broke the knelled seat.
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I dressed the bar nocking off the burrs and fluxed the bar and pressed it in with the correct alinement. Applied heat and solder to anchor the bar. Now the springs are even and I have the correct alignment of the pivot bar to the needle bar.
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JerryVan
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Re: Problems with Victrola #2 rebuild

Post by JerryVan »

An excellent idea to put the screws in while pressing out the bar!! It would be very easy to collapse the screw holes otherwise. Great thinking! ;)

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