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I'm not all that familiar with the Spanish-market Gramophone models --

FROM RUBY LANE -- http://www.rubylane.com/item/1251216-GR ... Voice-Horn

Joe

I'm by no means an expert, but judging from the pictures it's certainly no crap-o-phone. It could be a Frankenphone, but then it's one of the best ones I've ever seen. The only thing that's not original is the soundbox. I don't believe the no 2 was around in 1910. I believe it was introduced around 1925...

bart1927 wrote:I'm by no means an expert, but judging from the pictures it's certainly no crap-o-phone. It could be a Frankenphone, but then it's one of the best ones I've ever seen. The only thing that's not original is the soundbox. I don't believe the no 2 was around in 1910. I believe it was introduced around 1925...

Many thanks. The #2 actually came out around 1917 -- http://www.victor-victrola.com/Brakes%2 ... nd%202.htm -- and was even used on a few late production outside-horn Victor models. The #4 was introduced in 1925, for playing the electrically recorded records on the portables and VV-1-70, and was sold to customers ($5, I believe) to "upgrade" existing floor models.

In any event, I'm inclined to agree with you that if it's not authentic, it's more of a Franken-phone (Francisco-en-fono? )

Joe

I don't think it's a Frankenphone, but I do think it has been heavily restored. If I remember correctly there were discussions about machines from that seller before and all seemed to be over-restored. Maybe that's what sells in Spain?

Andreas

I think this is an original Spanish HMV machine. The finish looks original - the parts may have been re-plated and obviously the horn was repainted. They may have made these into the 1920's, hence the #2 reproducer. A number of early style machines were made at later dates in countries like Mexico, Spain and India using left over parts. Overall, it's a nice looking machine, but I wouldn't pay the asking price...

I've seen this seller many times on ebay and now he is selling on Rubylane. There is something very funny about the back bracket. I can't put my finger on this, but it does not look like a typical Victor or HMV bracket. Yet, the elbow and arm fit. But I can't tell if it is a legitimate fit, or the bracket was modified to make the parts fit. Just my observation.
Harvey Kravitz

Curt A wrote:I think this is an original Spanish HMV machine. The finish looks original - the parts may have been re-plated and obviously the horn was repainted. They may have made these into the 1920's, hence the #2 reproducer. A number of early style machines were made at later dates in countries like Mexico, Spain and India using left over parts. Overall, it's a nice looking machine, but I wouldn't pay the asking price...

Just for clarification...HMV machine's were never made nor sold in Mexico. Victor, did however manufacture in the USA export machine's for the Mexican and other Latin American country markets. These export models were made as late as the early 1930's.

It is an authentic HMV made for the Spanish market. A number of other machines like this one were sold in ebay over the years, and there was one at the Phonogalerie in Paris. This particular one is heavily restored, as already pointed out, which seems to be a practice of this seller.

There might be some vestige of "originality" here but to my eyes at least (and they have rarely failed me so far) this is a badly "restored" and partly remade and recently assembled machine. Why do I say this? Well, the cabinet is quite poorly made if you look closely. The original cabinets were made for the Spanish market by the French G & T / HMV company. Genuine original examples are actually pretty rare but what they all have in common is a similar build quality to a Victor / UK HMV. They are usually made from Walnut and other continentally sourced timbers but they still have a minimum quality on par with their Victor / UK HMV cousins. This machine on eBay and elsewhere does not share this quality.

Also, it has been re-plated and horn repainted as others have noted. This has not been done with care suggesting a dealer has someone in the workshop knocking three of these out a day. It doesn't look like the work of a collector or by someone who wants to live with it for any length of time. Are we supposed to believe that this dealer alone has found an incredible stock of rare Spanish machines that all need EQUAL restoration doing to them? Unlikely.

Regarding the back-brackets, my genuine COMPANIA DEL GRAMOFONO SA (BARCELONA) ‘No. 9’ also has a curiosity in this area: it has an all-BRASS type of conventional Victor pattern but with a different curvature to the support. It strangely also has a serial number stamped into the casting! It is not particularly well made suggesting to me that it is one of a relatively small batch made this way on the continent rather than those supplied directly by Victor and ported through the GB HMV franchise. However I agree with the observer who said that this one doesn't look quite right. Along with the other machines this seller is offering, all the back-brackets look very crudely made and yet are near enough identical to the Victor counterparts of the drop-in elbow variety. Are these modern reproductions? Who knows but my eyes sent a message to my brain saying "avoid at all costs" whenever these suspiciously over-restored machines appear.

Phonofreak wrote:I've seen this seller many times on ebay and now he is selling on Rubylane. There is something very funny about the back bracket. I can't put my finger on this, but it does not look like a typical Victor or HMV bracket. Yet, the elbow and arm fit. But I can't tell if it is a legitimate fit, or the bracket was modified to make the parts fit. Just my observation.
Harvey Kravitz

I agree... and I think after looking at the picture again, it appears to be made up.