How to tell Edison Columbia brown waxes Apart.

[HisMastersVoice]

Shawn, I think you've misunderstood what George and others have said. Nobody is saying that the work you have done is not important. I think the point here was that you can't expect a conversation about the chemical composition of brown wax cylinders or how many ribs they have inside to really take off when there are only 2 members of this forum who understand what any of it means, or have the desire to learn. At the end of the day, you've figured out how to make a product as close to the original as possible, which is great, but I think your audience for the chemistry aspect is limited here.

Remember, just because we don't have lengthy conversations on the composition of bathroom tissue, doesn't mean it's not important to us all.

[phono-smitten]

Not too long ago, when I first became interested in this hobby, I was surprised to find out these early cylinders were still being made. I've been reading Shawn's and Chuck's posts, have watched their videos, and even had the honor of meeting Shawn briefly at Union and getting to see his brown wax creations in person. I find what they do fascinating. As I learn more I also understand the importance of what they do in terms of offering an alternative which allows for the preservation of historically important originals. As I form my 'fantasy' collection I have decided to include an early cylinder machine. Currently I collect 78rpm discs as they are abundant and can be acquired inexpensively. I'm not really interested in collecting wax cylinders, I figure these are best left to experienced collectors or preservationists, but if I acquire an early machine I would like to play it occasionally. Because of the work others like Shawn and Chuck are doing we have a readily available supply of new wax recordings. That is pretty fantastic!

I do read topics such as this one because I learn from them but generally do not have anything of any value to say. I do however recognize that these topics are important as information references and appreciate those who take the time to post.

[Chuck]

Well, I'll just add that to me a big part
of all of this is getting the information
out there and documented.

I often think about all I've gone through over
the years from about 1978 until now, searching
for information about making cylinders.

When I first started out, I had nothing
except a working Edison phonograph and some
cylinders to play on it, along with reproducers
C and H.

Over the years I had to go around and meet
people, talk with them, called lots of people,
asked lots of questions, drove all over the place searching out what very few small bits
of information I could find about the subject.

At several points along the line, it all
seemed like an overwhelming task because
there are so many different aspects to it.

First, you need working recorders and back in
1978, those were quite difficult to find.
Then you need a shaving machine. Then you
need blanks to shave and record upon.
Fortunately, Dictaphone and Ediphone blanks
filled the gap and served as the required
stepping-stone to first learn how to shave and
record before attempting to make blanks from
scratch.

Then, in order to make blanks you need a mold.
So, that was a whole series of more things to
learn about, is how to make a mold.

Then, once you have your mold, then comes the
time to get the ingredients and try making
some wax.

Each of these separate topics could easily fill
a fair sized hardbound volume, in order to
really do justice to it.

So, a big part of why I post things about all
of this is because looking back, at several
points along the way, I wished that I could
look up and find such information.

Sure, those of us who are making blanks,
we are selling them. But, it is much more
than that. I personally would like to add
to the overall history of this entire subject,
making things easier and more straightforward
for those people in the near or distant future
who come in fresh, and want to learn the craft.

So much of what went on in the old days
back when Edison and Columbia were mass-producing cylinders was jealously guarded.
They had their proprietary secrets, and they
even went so far as to put out disinformation
in order to throw off competitors.

I aim to change that. I think that it should
all be out there in the open, explained in
detail so that it can all be duplicated by
anyone, at any time. That, after all, is
what real science is about. Science does not
do so well when secrets are guarded, nor does
it work well when there are political and
monetary motivations. Quite often, it then
gets turned into "pseudo-science", which is
just another way to say they are lying.
This happens when data gets skewed in favor
of what someone wants it to say, who is paying the "scientists" to validate it.

And, referring back to Shawn's original post
here in this thread, he is interested in making
sure that the info is there for people to use.

Chuck

[edisonphonoworks]

Chuck you and I have mentioned what Ediphone blanks are used for, its composition, it is clear as crystal that you cant't expect to have a record made on them that will last very long. Yet people disregard us as crazy or having a motive, and spend big money on records made on something so fleeting. They disregard the fact that some Dictation machine blanks contain lead, and they ignore us, and continue to shave away pounds of lead based blanks with the swarf a flying, with a possibility of lead poisoning. But yes I agree with you Chuck we must document our findings. I say if it looks like a duck quack likes a duck and lays eggs, it is a duck!

[Chuck]

Looking at the "big picture" of what all is
out there available to use, for anyone who ever
wants to make their own cylinder recordings
at home, there are a few options available.

Starting from ground zero as I did beginning in
about 1978, with absolutely no knowledge about
any of it, I chose to try it in stages.

The first stage was to get an Edison recorder
and get it working. It was in pieces, so the first several lessons were ones learned about
putting one of these recorders back together
and making it work.

Then came the big question of what to use
for blanks, and how to shave them. I lucked
in to finding a very nice, very little-used
Dictaphone Model 7 Type "S" shaver machine
that came with several Ediphone blanks.

Those Ediphone blanks served very well as
a set of blanks to use to learn about shaving
and recording.

As the years passed, it became more and more
evident to me that in order to have an endless
supply of blanks, without ever having to give
further thought to not having enough blanks,
that I was going to have to bite the bullet and
learn to make my own.

Also, along with that, was the growing feeling
of guilt every time I cut down another NOS
Dictaphone or Ediphone blank for use on the
Edison phonograph. Those dictation blanks
are very thick when new. They were made to be
able to be shaved and recorded about 100 times
before being used up. Contrast that with
an Edison phonograph blank, which only can
be shaved and recorded about 20 times tops.

Also, the dictation blanks are a full 6 inches
long so that they can record and play a full
12 minutes at 80 rpm on the Dictaphone machine.

After obtaining and restoring a set of Dictaphone machines here, I am glad that I
stopped ruining dictation blanks. Dictation
blanks are made to be used on Dictation Machines. They are specialized just for that.

Each and every single dictation cylinder that
gets cut down for use on a cylinder phonograph
is simply one less of them that can be used
on the machines it was intended for.

Cutting down dictation blanks served me well
as a necessary evil to be able to learn
some things about how this all works.

However, now that I have in place the method
for making phonograph cylinders, I have no
further need to deface wonderful, NOS
Ediphone blanks.

Keeping the history of this all in mind,
it's important to remember that dictation machines as used in offices everywhere for
decades were never meant for long-term storage
of recorded sound. Usually the boss would
dictate a letter and then give the cylinders
to the typist, and she would transcribe it.

After the letter was typed up, signed, approved
and sent off, the blanks went straight to
the shaver to be made ready for the next use.

So, keeping this all in perspective, the
sound stored on these blanks rarely was
intended to last more than a few days.
Then, add to that, the idea that they were
also not meant to be played very many times
either. They just need to hold up for
enough plays for the typist to get all the
phrases down. She could go back over each
phrase by using a foot pedal to back up the
carriage a few grooves over. Those grooves
are so fine that after about 20 times listening
to a phrase, the sound does start to fall
noticeably down into the noise.

That's what they were for. That's what they do. As Shawn points out, you can dress the
duck up and take it out and try to call it
something else, but it is still a duck.