C250/C19 Database project

[martinola]

For what it's worth, I found that recording partial machines, loose bedplates and even separate data plates useful in cataloging the machines that we no longer have (and in some cases identifying machines that have been recently assembled from collector's parts bins).

Fran - I'm really pleased that you're sticking to the project.

Regards,
Martin

[fran604g]

Fran, I want to congratulate you on the great progress being made on this database. I knew that many folks are quite enthusiastic about the Chippendales and that a community of interest would propel your project along--and so it has proved.

Some of you will remember that I started my "inventory" of the Edisonic phonographs when a Pennsylvania dealer totally parted out--and thereby destroyed--a Schubert Edisonic. Now, as I regularly search E-bay for Edison products, I've concluded that Chippendales seem to be victims of parting out at an alarming rate--well above the "mortality rate" of the Edisonics. Given how big and heavy the Chippendales are, I think the temptation among dealers is great to strip them down and sell the parts instead of arranging for transportation of the whole. I have seen numerous examples of the serial number plates being sold by themselves; I've always wondered, who would want such a non-functioning part that is useful only when attached to its phonograph?

Fran, have you considered starting a record of the destroyed Chippendales? I know you have enough on your plate now. I'd defer to you if you want to take that on, but if you don't, I could start a thread to which people who find these stripped-off serial plate numbers can submit those numbers. Unfortunately, it would not be hard to get started; these Chippendale serial number plates appear on E-bay constantly.

Ralph

P.S. Or, perhaps, I (or anyone--feel free) can start a "serial number graveyard" thread that records all serial number plates that appear on E-bay and elsewhere.

Ralph,

Thank you for the kind words and your suggestion.

I have already been doing just that. Given the vast number of Chippendales that I have encountered so far, I have, thankfully, seen only a relatively few that have been parted out. I have made a habit of contacting the sellers of those few examples asking them for their help. Surprisingly, all of them (so far) have been very amenable to my requests.

For example; a transitional dataplate was listed some weeks ago by a gentleman in California on eBAY. Through my correspondence with him, I learned that the unit had been stored outside with the mechanism separate from the cabinet and was destroyed over time. He had some of the parts and was nice enough to go back to the source and provide me with the particular features I am recording in my database. Initially, I hadn't thought of actually buying the plate, but I contacted him and he relisted it, at which time I was fortunate enough to purchase it. I have recorded all of the information I needed to associate with that item and given the dozen or so transitional Chippendales that I've recorded, it has particular importance to my work.

Another development in my research is that I have broadened my research, on a personal level, to include B-250's because I have theorised that there may have been a transitional period between the production of them and the C-250 as well. It's much too early for me to draw any serious conclusions to that hunch, but time and perseverance will show me if I am right or wrong.

And, by the way; I am loving this!

Believe me when I say, I am being as thorough as I can in my observations, spending several hours most days in researching the important features of this project and including additional observations where appropriate to the study. The information I need on the finer points of interest is difficult to find, but I have hopes that the Thomas Edison National Historical Park will be able to help me with a request for associated documentation.

Best,
Fran

[fran604g]

For what it's worth, I found that recording partial machines, loose bedplates and even separate data plates useful in cataloging the machines that we no longer have (and in some cases identifying machines that have been recently assembled from collector's parts bins).

Fran - I'm really pleased that you're sticking to the project.

Regards,
Martin

Thank you, Martin!

I have a small sense of how much time and effort you must have spent on your Standard research! I can only hope to be as successful as you have been and I only have two or three machine variations that I'm studying, as opposed to your 10 dataplate variations alone! A truly epic undertaking.

Best,
Fran

[edisonplayer]

C-250 mahogany,SN:SM60343,Round medallion,Duncan stop:Yes,Store plate;E.F.Droop & Sons,1300 G,Washington,D.C. Steinway pianos-Victrolas edisonplayer

[fran604g]

C-250 mahogany,SN:SM60343,Round medallion,Duncan stop:Yes,Store plate;E.F.Droop & Sons,1300 G,Washington,D.C. Steinway pianos-Victrolas edisonplayer

Thank you! I hate to bother you for more details, but, I don't want to assume. Is your bedplate void of pinstriping, does the medallion state, "The Model 250 Diamond Disc Phonograph is the Official Laboratory Model Thos A Edison" and which material is the cabinet; Oak or Mahogany? Finally, is the storage 2 drawers? I know this probably sounds trivial, and I'm reasonably sure that it does have drawers, but I need to hear it from you.

Thank you again,
Fran

[edisonplayer]

Yes,Fran,there is no pinstriping on the bedplate of my C-250.Mine is a 1918 model,and as my friend Jerry Donnell told me,Mrs.Minerva Witz purchased it in 1919 from E.F.Droop & Sons in Washington,D.C.By that time thepinstriping feature was discontinued.It was only from what I gather on the earliest C-250's.And,my round medallion on the machine designates it as "The Official Lab Model".There you are!edisonplayer

[edisonplayer]

I also want to add with my C-250 that there are two storage drawers for records,and the cabinet is mahogany.By the way,the serial number on the oak C-250 that was on EBay wasn't too far off from the one on mine.And,last week a friend of mine googled 1300 G St.in Washington,D.C.of E.F.Droop & Sons.Do so and you'll see the shop.Have fun!edisonplayer

[fran604g]

Yes,Fran,there is no pinstriping on the bedplate of my C-250.Mine is a 1918 model,and as my friend Jerry Donnell told me,Mrs.Minerva Witz purchased it in 1919 from E.F.Droop & Sons in Washington,D.C.By that time thepinstriping feature was discontinued.It was only from what I gather on the earliest C-250's.And,my round medallion on the machine designates it as "The Official Lab Model".There you are!edisonplayer

Thank you Edisonplayer, you're correct, the pinstriping seems to have disappeared around #30,000. There must be more to the wording on your medallion, however.

Best,
Fran

[startgroove]

Two C-19's:
Serial Number: 141421 137523
Bedplate striping: none none
Medallion shape: round round
Medallion wording: Diamond Disc Official Laboratory Model same
Drawers or shelves: dividers dividers
Cabinet wood: Dark Oak Medium Oak
Duncan Stop: I don't know what a Duncan stop is
Dealer tag: none none
Grille clothe: Medium brown Goldish tan

Cheers, Russie

[fran604g]

Thank you, Russie!

A "Duncan Automatic Stop" is an electrically operated stop mechanism that was briefly used by Edison on some C-250's. It entailed a wire that was connected to the rear of the reproducer and when the diamond stylus stopped traveling in the grooves at the end of a record, the reproducer limit pin would contact the limit loop and complete a circuit activating a coil which caused a magnetic field and tripped the brake, causing the turntable to stop.

Best,
Fran