WANTED: Floating Reproducer for Thorens Brittania Type A

[john9ten]

Floating reproducer needed for my Brittania Type A cylinder phonograph. It was made by Thorens and sold by B.H. Abrahams in London. Photos of the machine are attached. Looks like it would take a COlumbia reproducer, but the carriage neck is skinnier. Pics of the machine and the reproducer are attached.
All assistance appreciated.
John Robles

[phonogfp]

Sorry I can't help with the reproducer, but I had to comment on how much I like that "ship's wheel" winder! I try to limit my collecting to machines of U.S. origin, but cool features like that are quite appealing.

George P.

[john9ten]

Sorry I can't help with the reproducer, but I had to comment on how much I like that "ship's wheel" winder! I try to limit my collecting to machines of U.S. origin, but cool features like that are quite appealing.

George P.

Agreed! When I first saw a photo of it I was thinking that someone had replaced the winding key with a faucet valve handle! But the projections on it matched the lift lever handle, and upon doind a little research I found that it was original. Thorens manufactured a few different cylinder phonographs, all with the same mechanism but different winding apparatus. The Cleopatra model could be wound from the right or left side, and the Britannia had the ship's wheel winding key. I believe the rest have small cranks.

[gramophone78]

Sorry I can't help with the reproducer, but I had to comment on how much I like that "ship's wheel" winder! I try to limit my collecting to machines of U.S. origin, but cool features like that are quite appealing.

George P.

Agreed! When I first saw a photo of it I was thinking that someone had replaced the winding key with a faucet valve handle! But the projections on it matched the lift lever handle, and upon doind a little research I found that it was original. Thorens manufactured a few different cylinder phonographs, all with the same mechanism but different winding apparatus. The Cleopatra model could be wound from the right or left side, and the Britannia had the ship's wheel winding key. I believe the rest have small cranks.

Just for the record...the name is "Britannia Phonograph"

As a collector of Swiss machines, I would love to know where you found reference to the use of this ships wheel style crank..?.

Britannia is a trade name of Barnett Henry Abrahams, an Englishman who emigrated to Switzerland and commenced business as a manufacturer of musical boxes, usually bearing the Britannia trademark.

Like many such manufacturers, B.H.A diversified into the gramophone business when the demand for musical boxes dried up.

He also manufactured disc machines under the name Britanniaphone. Here is one I just sold (see pics). Most of the components like brake, pitch control, tone arm, back bracket, etc..... were made by Paillard.

Here is a little more information on B.H.A. company....
BHA, Barnett H. Abrahams moved in 1895 to St. Croix and manufactured music boxes. He died in 1902.
This machine was made by the Son's company called Britannia and founded June 24, 1904 Britannia SA, among other things,manufactured, purchased and sold phonographs and other talking machines.
This family thus had a sales network in England.

Source: the makers of music boxes, J.-C. Piguet, Ste-Croix

You may be very hard pressed to find the correct reproducer.
However, I wish you luck... .

[gramophone78]

John, not to high jack your thread, I just want to show how closely these Swiss company's were interacting. The above post I showed a B.H.A. Britanniaphone #3. As mentioned the main parts were supplied by Paillard.

However, at the same approximate time, Paillard also offered a Maestrophone #3 (see pic). As you can see both machines are virtually identical yet different. One could even argue the case of the B.H.A. was made by Paillard as well.
Just thought you may find this interesting... .

[john9ten]

Sorry I can't help with the reproducer, but I had to comment on how much I like that "ship's wheel" winder! I try to limit my collecting to machines of U.S. origin, but cool features like that are quite appealing.

George P.

Agreed! When I first saw a photo of it I was thinking that someone had replaced the winding key with a faucet valve handle! But the projections on it matched the lift lever handle, and upon doind a little research I found that it was original. Thorens manufactured a few different cylinder phonographs, all with the same mechanism but different winding apparatus. The Cleopatra model could be wound from the right or left side, and the Britannia had the ship's wheel winding key. I believe the rest have small cranks.

Just for the record...the name is "Britannia Phonograph"

As a collector of Swiss machines, I would love to know where you found reference to the use of this ships wheel style crank..?.

Britannia is a trade name of Barnett Henry Abrahams, an Englishman who emigrated to Switzerland and commenced business as a manufacturer of musical boxes, usually bearing the Britannia trademark.

Like many such manufacturers, B.H.A diversified into the gramophone business when the demand for musical boxes dried up.

He also manufactured disc machines under the name Britanniaphone. Here is one I just sold (see pics). Most of the components like brake, pitch control, tone arm, back bracket, etc..... were made by Paillard.

Here is a little more information on B.H.A. company....
BHA, Barnett H. Abrahams moved in 1895 to St. Croix and manufactured music boxes. He died in 1902.
This machine was made by the Son's company called Britannia and founded June 24, 1904 Britannia SA, among other things,manufactured, purchased and sold phonographs and other talking machines.
This family thus had a sales network in England.

Source: the makers of music boxes, J.-C. Piguet, Ste-Croix

You may be very hard pressed to find the correct reproducer.
However, I wish you luck... .

Britanniaphone With All Brass Horn (5).JPG

Britanniaphone Gramophone (4).JPG

Britanniaphone With All Brass Horn (1).JPG

I was informed by a couple of people (including Tim Fabrizio) that this was made by Thorens and sold through B.H. Abrahams. I have read since then that Abrahams was a manufacturer of music boxes, gramophones etc in Switzerland as well. Then your information on parts being made by Paillard is interesting too. So is this NOT made by Thorens? I am getting confused now! Re the ship's wheel, I am not sure I understand the question. If you are asking where I heard it called a "ship's wheel", that was mentioned on an auction of the same model of machine on UK eBay back in November.

[gramophone78]

I was informed by a couple of people (including Tim Fabrizio) that this was made by Thorens and sold through B.H. Abrahams. I have read since then that Abrahams was a manufacturer of music boxes, gramophones etc in Switzerland as well. Then your information on parts being made by Paillard is interesting too. So is this NOT made by Thorens? I am getting confused now! Re the ship's wheel, I am not sure I understand the question. If you are asking where I heard it called a "ship's wheel", that was mentioned on an auction of the same model of machine on UK eBay back in November.

John, with all due respect, Your machine is really a Thorens "knock off" by B.H.A. Much like the two examples I show regarding the disc models. B.H.A certainly may have used some Thorens parts. However, you must realize Thorens and Paillard were eventually joined together by the marriage of the two families.

Both Thorens and Paillard were suppliers of parts to many company's both in Switzerland and around the world.

Regarding the "ship wheel" crank.....can you please provide me with your source showing this being used (ie: a period catalog or ??).
I have never seen or heard of such a crank used on any Swiss model. I'm afraid your intuition about it being a faucet valve handle or ???....may be correct... .

I'm still picturing how difficult it would be to wind with this wheel and watch your fingers if it should ever kick back...Ouch!!!!....

I'm attaching a Thorens catalog page showing a two spring "Capital" model (one of many models Thorens offered). As you can see, the design is similar or the same as your machine. You can also see a flat "key" type winder (like some early Gem models) is in place. *Note* this model was also available with a "top crank" (shown in front of the machine) at additional cost as stated in the catalog.

I hope this helps... .

[Curt A]

John, we are getting sidetracked in your search for a reproducer. I have seen several pics of your type machine and the "ships wheel" crank is original - not a faucet handle. You might try Howard Hope, since he deals in British machines and has a B.H.Abrahams music box for sale... http://www.gramophones.uk.com/

[Curt A]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Thorens-03 ... 7675.l2557

[gramophone78]

John,
The paper shown in the completed Ebay UK auction certainly indicates the "ship wheel" crank was used on this Britannia model. That's very good to know.

I wonder why the name plate is absent on the Ebay example..??.

As George has stated.....a crank like this is a neat novelty to see on a machine. I like it... . Still, I would be most apprehensive with my fingers in there..... .

Howard is one person I would contact regarding a reproducer. However, he is most difficult to reach and rarely has parts for sale (even more so if rare parts).

You may also want to try Guido in Holland. I'm sure you know of him.

It's always great to learn something new and the very reason for this forum. ... .

I just realized that both machines are missing the reproducer. I wonder why.. .

John, if you send me a PM, I will put you in touch with a man in Switzerland who "may" be able to help you. There is another European collector I know that "may" also .